(April 13, 2013 at 10:48 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:With this sense of "believe" that argument isn't applicable. The problem with the argument is then that, well, lots of people do believe. The "us" in point 1 is undefined, but seems to indicate every person. But, that hasn't been demonstrated Biblically. There are plenty of passages that show that god doesn't expect everyone to be saved, so there's no reason to expect him to ensure that every person accepts his truth, whether or not that is possible. See Romans 9, and recall Jesus' parables of the broad and narrow paths, and of the sower.(April 13, 2013 at 4:23 pm)John V Wrote: Several problems with this argument. The first that pops out is: how are you using believe? If in the sense of faith as is usual in a religious context, and if belief in X is necessary for salvation, then knowledge of X would actually prevent salvation.
I use "believe" in the sense that if you asked someone (say, a Christian) "do you think x is true?" and they say "yes", then they believe x to be true.
How does knowledge of x prevent salvation?? I don't understand.
Quote:God is supposed to be omniscient. He knows exactly how to do it so that we can't deny x to be true.That presumes that there is a way that can't be denied, a point which hasn't been proven.