On Non-belief

[Tex]

The greater the doubt, the more souls that roast in hell not by their own doing, but by God's shyness to reveal himself.

Nah, the doubt would be due to ourselves. It's not that there isn't proof out there, but we have to work for it.

Finally, I don't even know if the knowledge beyond a doubt would help so many people. I can't reasonably say all, but most people would still want to do what they want, make their own way, and basically dismiss the knowledge they have as unimportant.

Then so be it. At least everyone had an equal chance at eternity.

Everyone does have an equal chance at eternity. Not every has the same chance to know intricate details. Not everyone gets every opportunity ever, and to have the opportunity is completely unnecessary.

To note again, to for you but mainly to other readers, no knowledge saves. Even Native Americans have a chance for salvation.

You keep bringing up this strawman. I've never said that the knowledge itself saves. It simply gives everyone an equal chance at eternity.

The equal knowledge doesn't mean equal chance at eternity. Some people could (hypothetically) turn away if they knew more. Some could (hypothetically) turn toward if they knew more. Some people still wouldn't care. Equal disposition would make equal chance at eternity, and in fact, the large majority of Christians teach this. Original Sin means we were all born with an innate disposition against God. We can never fully undo this ourselves, but we can, with faith, "turn" (more commonly, "repent") during our life, and this is all that is needed.

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The Mormons will tell you that Jesus flew over here after he rose and died, but that is not my reasoning (nor any sane person). I believe God is partially known in an indirect manner naturally. The "transcendentals" are Good, True, Beauty, Order, and Being. These are metaphysically complex, but a person, without even having the concept of "god" might not be able to develop a complex metaphysics from these transcendentals but use them all the same.

Little At'eed and Ashkii were running around one day and come across a wounded man from another tribe, barely conscious. Both of them hide bushes as not to be seen. A few minutes pass and Ethete, a girl from a third other tribe which both At'eed and Ashkii hate, comes along the same path. Ethete doesn't run at the sight of the unknown wounded man, but instead she runs over and begins tending to his needs. The injuries are doctored and the woman helps the man back to the nearest village. Ashkii thinks that Ethete was stupid in helping. She has wasted time and energy on someone she doesn't even know, not to mention the potential danger she put herself in. At'eed thinks the opposite; Ethete was right to help and her actions may have saved a man's life.

Ethete helping the man is part of the Good. She is participating in something Godly, even though she does not know it. Indirectly, she is worshiping God. Ashkii doesn't think that what she was doing is smart, and although he saw the scenario, he puts himself in front of the needs of other. He has witness Good and finds it repulsive. At'eed has witnessed the good and, although she did not participate, she agrees with it. This is not worship, but this is a disposition toward God.

Of those that adhere to this strange metaphysics, there are 2 opinions. The first is that only Ethete can be saved since she is the only one who acts upon her dispositions. This is not my opinion. My opinion is that Both Ethete and At'eed can be saved because both have the inward disposition toward God. However, I will say that At'eed needs to begin acting on this disposition and not quell it, because quelling it may lead her away from her current path.

You can actually use that same scenario I gave for all 5 of those transcendentals: Truth is that the person had dire needs met. Beauty is the act of helping someone who has done nothing to deserve it and most likely will not get anything for it. Order is the happenstance that this girl ran along when the guy needed her. Being is simply that things "are".

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No idea where you're getting this pseudo-theology or why it should even be considered. For all you know, these people were doing these deeds for Mountain God or whatever they might believe.

If the only reason they do them is because they have been told to, they aren't exercising their will and aren't participating in the Good (my little phrase). If they're doing the Good because it will bring them praise, they also get no credit. The only way to actually participate in the Good properly is to do it simply because it is Good. It's the same reason why you save a stranger drowning over saving a dog drowning. Both are terrible, but the reason you save the person isn't because they can give you stuff for saving them or they are pretty or something like that, but you save them because they are a person.

And this should be considered because I place it within the salvation theory, the subject of our conversation.