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God & Objective Morals
#45
RE: God & Objective Morals
(April 20, 2013 at 10:22 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: "To exist is good"..? According to whom? And if I work backwards from this, I could say:

1) To exist is good
2) I exist
C) I am Being itself and Goodness itself a.k.a. God

I describe existing as "participation in Existence". I am not Existence itself, but the "I" definitely depends upon it at all times.

(April 20, 2013 at 10:22 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:
Quote:God, as Being unlimited, would then equally be Goodness unlimited. In so far as you exist, you are good. Even a demon, in so far as he exists, is good.

No, according to your own logic, if we took the definition of a demon and came to a conclusion, we would most likely get "to exist is evil".

"To exist is good" is a meaningless statement, as something necessarily needs to exist to do anything, and I don't see how existence itself is good.

This isn't the proof part, this is the assertion I'm about to try to prove. And, if "to exist is good" is true, the demon, even though the actions are always evil, in so far as "the demon exists", "the demon is good". It is only good in that respect though.

For the record, I am in no way a pantheist. That is not the line of thinking I have.

(April 20, 2013 at 10:22 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:
Quote: Can Being exist separate from Good? No. If Being were separate from Good, then existence is in itself literally "worth-less". God's own existence, much like a DCT ethics, is now arbitrary, and thus without reason. This begs the question, "Why the system in the first place?".

You still haven't actually answered why God necessarily had to be this way. His mere existence defining him as ultimate "Good" is a non-sequitur, because he necessarily needed to exist to be anything: good, evil, green, unicorn-like. You seem to say existence is sufficient to be good, in which case I argued that, according to you, I am God, as is everyone. If you say "no no, but God is the definition of 'Good'" then we're right back at square one; what made it necessary(?), because existence alone doesn't entail that he necessarily had to be good. Existence is necessary for attributes, but for good..? That begs the question.

This is where I was worried. I don't know how to answer other than "there is Good, all things are derivative of God, therefore Good is derivative of God". I pondered over "when you exist, you must exist in a certain way (lizard, human, angel, maggot, whatever), and Existence's certain way is Good" and then argue by analogy, but I didn't get far with that either. If there was no universe and I removed even my own existence from the picture, I don't think we could know that there is a God without some sort of signifying evidence.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
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Messages In This Thread
God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 7:34 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 10:32 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by ebg - May 9, 2013 at 9:22 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - May 9, 2013 at 9:27 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 10:44 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 10:48 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by genkaus - April 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2013 at 11:58 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Esquilax - April 17, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 12:08 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2013 at 7:33 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 17, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Whateverist - April 17, 2013 at 9:44 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 9:48 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 9:19 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Whateverist - April 17, 2013 at 9:48 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Esquilax - April 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by genkaus - April 18, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by bladevalant546 - April 17, 2013 at 1:20 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Whateverist - April 17, 2013 at 1:43 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 17, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 17, 2013 at 8:33 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 18, 2013 at 8:45 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tonus - April 18, 2013 at 8:51 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 18, 2013 at 10:37 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 19, 2013 at 4:22 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 20, 2013 at 10:22 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 20, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 21, 2013 at 12:22 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 23, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Silver - April 23, 2013 at 11:30 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 23, 2013 at 11:55 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 24, 2013 at 6:26 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 21, 2013 at 12:36 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 21, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2013 at 11:09 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2013 at 11:24 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2013 at 8:45 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by genkaus - April 19, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 19, 2013 at 11:34 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 19, 2013 at 11:50 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by cnk12 - April 19, 2013 at 12:38 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 19, 2013 at 12:47 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 19, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 19, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 19, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 19, 2013 at 8:58 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - April 21, 2013 at 2:56 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 23, 2013 at 11:46 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Silver - April 24, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 24, 2013 at 8:33 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Whateverist - April 24, 2013 at 10:03 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 24, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 24, 2013 at 1:48 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 25, 2013 at 8:39 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 25, 2013 at 9:38 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 24, 2013 at 12:45 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - April 24, 2013 at 6:31 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 25, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 26, 2013 at 1:51 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 27, 2013 at 12:31 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tonus - April 27, 2013 at 9:34 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 27, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 27, 2013 at 6:03 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 28, 2013 at 11:00 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Tex - April 29, 2013 at 8:24 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Statler Waldorf - April 29, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - April 29, 2013 at 11:10 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 29, 2013 at 11:57 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - April 29, 2013 at 10:48 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - May 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - May 5, 2013 at 10:44 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by smax - May 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by FallentoReason - May 7, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Praetorian - May 9, 2013 at 7:11 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Godschild - May 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 7:47 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Godschild - May 10, 2013 at 9:53 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Praetorian - May 10, 2013 at 1:04 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Praetorian - May 10, 2013 at 2:49 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by dazzn - May 12, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Godschild - May 13, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Ryantology - May 13, 2013 at 4:29 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by smax - May 13, 2013 at 6:53 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by Godschild - May 13, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: God & Objective Morals - by smax - May 15, 2013 at 10:26 am
RE: God & Objective Morals - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2013 at 10:52 am

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