God & Objective Morals

[FallentoReason]

---

With respect to ethics, I mentioned above that IMNSHO, that ethics were subjective but not arbitrary. In Joshua 24:15 presents an example of this subjective ethical choice, "...choose this day whom ye shall serve...". Earlier I seem to have poorly presented my thesis which is this. You can avoid arbitrary moral decisions by weighing them against a consistent standard. I use the example of standardized weights and measures. At one time nations prepared a set of standard weights and measures used to compare copies made for everyday use throughout the country. With time the everyday sets diverged from the king's standard. In the event of a dispute about the accuracy of one person's set of standards and another's, the worn sets could be compared for accuracy with the official standard. Of course this approach relies on the contesting parties' agreement to accept the king's standard as the means of resolution. That mutual choice make's it subjective. At the same time the standard itself is not arbitrary, it serves as a true guide for the accuracy of divergent standards.

Now the question is what can be used as a consistent standard for moral decisions. But what exactly is it that you are comparing. It seems to me that for moral decisions, each person must rely upon their own judgment. And of course, judgments vary from one person to another. What is needed is a fair judge. Now in the case of disputes, even the opinions of judges vary also. So if there is to be any way of determining between judges, you must be able to appeal to a higher standard to which even judges are compared. It seems to me that religion provides such a higher standard in the form of an Ultimate Judge to which every one is held accountable.

No one is compelled to believe such an Ultimate Judge exists. However, if one is to rule out arbitrary moral judgment, then such a belief is required. In other words, belief in God is necessary for assuring a non-arbitrary standard for moral decisions. The key issue in this is not that we can fully know how we compare to such a standard, but rather knowledge that we must justify our actions in comparison to such a standard and be held accountable for the soundness of our judgement.

---

Thanks for this contribution, but I think it's a red herring. You're addressing possible problems that could spring up after we've all hypothetically agreed that objective morals + a divine being aren't a mixture destined for self-refutation. In fact, I explored the latter of the issues (i.e. how objective morality would play out in our lives) with my Christian friend more than exploring the initial problems. I basically said I'll hypothetically believe there are objective morals (i.e. a standard set by an "Ultimate Judge") and now please lead the way: show me this standard. I was disappointed that even if I granted him the possibility of an ultimate standard, the best he could do was unknowngly appeal to his understanding of *subjective* morality; primarily moral relativity. All he had to offer was point to how our generation isn't racist anymore and that raping people is bad. It was an awful effort considering that he's basing his entire life on this alleged "ultimate standard" he supposedly lives by, and we couldn't even pin one thing down as being objectively right/wrong. So, I'll pass on the problem to you (which we have sort of explored already): what/where is this standard?

Christians talk about this topic as if their shepperd has led them to greener pastures, but upon inspection (and much granting of fundamental problems of the entire concept) all that happens is that they realise they haven't actually grazed this mythical pasture of moral perfection, which can *only* mean they have been grazing the same pasture as me.

As for your first two paragraphs, I'll have to think more about them. I just wanted to respond to the latter of your post before I went to bed and forgot what I thought.

---

Oh, so funny!

...

God is the existence that we participate in.

You know it's all in your head when your improv apologetics has lead you to invoke panentheism as a defence for Christianity. Yahweh will strike you down for your blasphemous ways(!), or will he, Mr. closet panentheist!