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Atheism Undermines Knowledge
#21
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge
(May 3, 2013 at 4:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Can you demonstrate that without a transcendent governance regularity on causal relationships would not exist…
The premise of the OP is this. Atheism entails the belief that physical interactions explain everything that needs to be explained. What you are doing is saying that the inherent order of the physical universe is a brute fact, it just is. I say this leaves something to be explained. The unanswered question is why there should be regular causal relationships as opposed to random outcomes.

By way of demonstration I showed that efficient causes terminate at the Plank scale otherwise changes of state would not be possible (due to infinite regress). Next I showed that since efficient causes cannot account for the relationship between one state and the next, you must look to other types of cause: formal and final. However, since these are by definition excluded from consideration, the atheist has no means for asserting any logical relationship between causes and effects. And without a logical relationship between the smallest of causes and their effects, there is no logical basis for inductive reasoning.

(May 3, 2013 at 4:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote: and that this transcendent governance must be a conscious entity?
Not necessarily. The nature of the transcendent governance remains an open question.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 1:51 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Minimalist - May 3, 2013 at 1:53 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 3, 2013 at 2:10 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by paulpablo - May 3, 2013 at 3:30 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 3, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 3, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 4:58 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 3, 2013 at 5:39 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 6:13 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 3, 2013 at 6:49 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Simon Moon - May 3, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2013 at 3:47 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Simon Moon - May 3, 2013 at 4:01 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 3, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 3, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Gooders1002 - May 3, 2013 at 4:05 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 3, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2013 at 4:14 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by paulpablo - May 3, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by paulpablo - May 3, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 6, 2013 at 12:18 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Gearbreak - May 3, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2013 at 5:45 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by paulpablo - May 4, 2013 at 12:28 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 6:33 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 3, 2013 at 7:22 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 7:48 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 4, 2013 at 6:20 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ergates - May 3, 2013 at 9:06 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 3, 2013 at 11:53 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 4, 2013 at 12:07 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 4, 2013 at 2:16 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - May 4, 2013 at 12:38 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 4, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 4, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 4, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by paulpablo - May 4, 2013 at 4:15 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 4, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Simon Moon - May 4, 2013 at 4:56 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 4, 2013 at 7:02 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 5, 2013 at 4:15 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Simon Moon - May 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 4, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Cato - May 4, 2013 at 8:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by DeistPaladin - May 6, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 5, 2013 at 11:56 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 5, 2013 at 12:07 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 5, 2013 at 12:38 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by ideologue08 - May 5, 2013 at 2:59 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 5, 2013 at 3:12 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 5, 2013 at 3:31 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 6, 2013 at 2:25 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - May 6, 2013 at 5:50 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 6, 2013 at 8:29 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Cato - May 8, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by justin - May 5, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by frz - May 5, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 6, 2013 at 2:34 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 6, 2013 at 7:06 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - May 6, 2013 at 10:12 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2013 at 9:04 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 6, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2013 at 2:10 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 6, 2013 at 2:15 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 6, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 6, 2013 at 9:50 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 6, 2013 at 9:56 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2013 at 2:34 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 6, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Lord Privy Seal - May 6, 2013 at 11:23 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by MysticKnight - May 6, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2013 at 2:38 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 6, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by MysticKnight - May 6, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 7, 2013 at 1:39 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 7, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 6, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 7, 2013 at 2:57 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 7, 2013 at 3:55 am
Re: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by frz - May 7, 2013 at 9:52 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 7, 2013 at 11:51 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 7, 2013 at 12:12 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 8, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 7, 2013 at 2:00 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 7, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 13, 2013 at 1:54 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 7, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 7, 2013 at 5:50 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 7, 2013 at 6:02 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 7, 2013 at 6:07 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 7, 2013 at 8:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 7, 2013 at 9:29 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 7, 2013 at 7:24 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 7, 2013 at 7:27 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by sevenofnine - May 8, 2013 at 1:21 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 3:12 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 8, 2013 at 3:14 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 8, 2013 at 3:26 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - May 8, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 3:15 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 8, 2013 at 3:19 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 3:21 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 8, 2013 at 3:27 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 8:36 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 8, 2013 at 12:50 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 8, 2013 at 1:17 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 9, 2013 at 10:20 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Simon Moon - May 8, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 8, 2013 at 3:27 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 3:39 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 8, 2013 at 4:07 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 4:35 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 8, 2013 at 5:22 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 1:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 8, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 8, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 10:48 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Darkstar - May 8, 2013 at 10:56 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 8, 2013 at 10:59 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Darkstar - May 8, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 9, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 10:26 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by KichigaiNeko - May 8, 2013 at 10:09 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Creed of Heresy - May 8, 2013 at 10:13 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by KichigaiNeko - May 8, 2013 at 10:25 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 8, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Creed of Heresy - May 8, 2013 at 11:10 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 12:50 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 8, 2013 at 1:21 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 8, 2013 at 1:27 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 1:31 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 1:36 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 9, 2013 at 3:18 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 9, 2013 at 3:19 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 9, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 9, 2013 at 10:40 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 9, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - May 9, 2013 at 12:21 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - May 9, 2013 at 12:26 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 9, 2013 at 12:43 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Simon Moon - May 9, 2013 at 11:20 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 3:41 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 9, 2013 at 3:52 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 4:01 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 3:59 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 4:09 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 4:10 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 4:14 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 4:21 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 4:25 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 9, 2013 at 4:31 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 4:47 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 4:58 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Esquilax - May 9, 2013 at 5:50 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 13, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 7:46 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Silver - May 9, 2013 at 7:48 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 9, 2013 at 7:52 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 9, 2013 at 12:07 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - May 9, 2013 at 12:29 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Whateverist - May 9, 2013 at 12:44 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Anomalocaris - May 9, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Bad Wolf - May 11, 2013 at 11:29 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2013 at 11:53 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2013 at 1:58 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 12, 2013 at 2:30 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2013 at 5:02 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 12, 2013 at 3:07 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 12, 2013 at 11:17 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2013 at 2:44 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 12, 2013 at 3:23 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Creed of Heresy - May 12, 2013 at 3:44 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Angrboda - May 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by tokutter - May 13, 2013 at 12:30 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 12, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 12, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Angrboda - May 13, 2013 at 12:36 am
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 1:32 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 13, 2013 at 12:11 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 1:36 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 13, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 2:36 pm
Re: RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Faith No More - May 13, 2013 at 1:54 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by LastPoet - May 13, 2013 at 1:50 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 13, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Ryantology - May 13, 2013 at 5:35 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 13, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 13, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 5:41 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - May 14, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 13, 2013 at 5:43 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 13, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 6:04 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 13, 2013 at 6:09 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 13, 2013 at 6:07 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2013 at 6:30 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 14, 2013 at 4:35 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 14, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Angrboda - May 14, 2013 at 3:24 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 14, 2013 at 3:56 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - May 14, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 14, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by LastPoet - May 14, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by pocaracas - May 14, 2013 at 4:40 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by LastPoet - May 14, 2013 at 4:44 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by fr0d0 - May 14, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by LastPoet - May 14, 2013 at 4:59 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by FallentoReason - May 25, 2013 at 10:45 pm
RE: Atheism Undermines Knowledge - by Terr - May 26, 2013 at 8:54 pm

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