The Problem of Evil, Free Will, and the "Greater Good"

[ThomM]

Since the god is not proven to actually exist - it cannot be blamed for anything - nor is it proven to be responsible for anything

And since most of the bible is actually FICTIONAL material - then we have NO reason to give a god CREDIT for anything either.

However - even if YOU consider the bible to be a allegory or a metaphor - the problem is that it does NOT support the claim of the benevolent god that xtians like to claim. The story of the Passover - even as an allegory - is a story of a great MURDER of people nor responsible for the actions of the pharaoh. The stories of the great flood - and Sodom and Gomorrah - are examples of the murder of the 20& of a population that would be too young to actually be responsible for their own actions - ie - babies and young children before the age of reason and responsibility.

But the biggest problem that even modified Monotheistic religions have - when they claim ONE creator - is that if the creator created everything - it had to create evil. No other being has that ability - ie - the ability to create. And worse - since the Xtian god is also claimed to be the ULTIMATE power extant - with nothing being impossible for it - then WHY claim a war against evil - because evil could NOT exist unless the god both created it and allows it to exist.

IF the god is ALL GOOD - why does it not just eliminate evil
And the correct answer is that the god is a creation of HUMANS - whose explanations of their creations are too convoluted and contradictory to actually be possible. So - the idea that a god exists is a JOKE.

Why can't people bring new arguments, we've been over this stuff so many times it's boring, Christians have refuted this junk.

Sorry - but XTIANS have not refuted this

PROOF that you have not - the majority of the people in the world accept that your religion is NOT TRUE.

IF you had already proven your god - all would have to believe it.

WE do not need to bring new arguments to a subject where YOU never support your initial presumption.

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We keep bringing them up precisely because no Christian ever has refuted them (after all, if you are incapable of proving the existence of your god, how can you possibly refute any criticism of that god?). You have merely invented rationalizations which satisfy only yourselves.

Indeed - ANd in fact - if YOU ask the majority of the "THeists" in the world - they AGREE that the Xtuian god is NOT real to begin with.

Now - Let us look at why we can reject the existence of a god

1 - Discoveries of History through Archeology and Geology - have shown that most of the early claims of religions are simply NOT even close to being true.
A - THe earth is Far older than the 6000 years of the timeline of the Old Testament - it is Billions of years old.

B - THere NEVER was a time when ALL of the living things of the earth existed at the same time. And it is clear that LOTS of animals existed millions of years BEFORE humans EVOLVED. IE - the story of creation is NONSENSE and proven so.

C: The FAIRY TALES of genesis - creation - the flood - the passover - moses - the parting of the red sea - the battle of Jericho - are now proven not have happened. Much of the later claims do not survive scrutiny -

D:AND there is NO evidence at all that the christ even lived on earth based on the records of his supposed time - which was the GOLDEN AGE OF ROME. WHile xtians cling to their claim that it was largely an undocumented time - we have MILLIONS of documents from that time - even several years of the results of the annual Roman Turtle races at the Saturnalia. Apparently the turtles are better at getting press than a supreme being is!


2 - Science not only can show - but provide Testable and verifiable proof of a number of things that directly reject the claims of religion


A: WE already KNOW that life EVOLVED on earth - DNA study has PROVEN that to be the case - and there is NO question that Natural Selection - ie survival of the fittest - which was DARWIN's claim about evolution HAS happened and continues to happen. THis is already so well documented that even the Catholic Church has had to admit it is.

B: THe discovery of a very basic particle of matter establishes the fact that the Universe developed over Billions of years - and that the current Universe is a development of acceleration from a single point is No longer just theory - but supportable in far more ways.

C: OF course - we know that the earth is not a flat "circle" on which there is a high place from which you can see all of its kingdoms - we know the earth is NOT the center of the Universe - we KNow that the earth is not the center of the solar system - we KNow the earth revolves on its axis as well as orbiting the sun - we KNOW that the moon does not PRODUCE light - we KNOW that humans cannot safely eat ALL SEED bearing plants. Science no longer has to even address these - they are established fact.


So - we have reduced "creation" down to a single thing - the ability to set the process of evolution of the Universe into motion

While we do not know the Initial basis - we can say that there is a natural explanation for the rest - supported by far more proof than the existence of spooks.

However - we can ALSO say that we do not need a "god" as an explanation. IF a higher power did it - all it would need is THAT single power - and does not even need to continue to exist. THe REST of the story of religion has NO reasonable basis - nor is it at all necessary.

And I have not even gotten into the reasons why the basic stories of religion do not make sense as well. WHy is it that an ULTIMATE POWER - that is supposed to be the ULTIMATE GOOD of all - allows evil to exist - but if the god is the Ultimate power - there is NO BATTLE between good (with god on that side) and evil - it is NOT even a contest. THE suggestion is stupid.

IF we are made in the image and likeness of god - why is it we CAN be seen - and a god has NEVER been seen - OOPS - LOTS of gods have been seen - and we have PROOF they existed - we have their mummies. BUT - they were humans - not "gods".

IF all humans are supposedly created equal - explain a baby born with AIDS - or without a limb - or without intelligence - or with a number of equally distressing maladies. If we are only responsible for our own actions - and not for the sins of our fathers (AS it says in the bible) = ONLY "EVE" needed to be saved. God punishing the rest of mankind is simply not logical nor fair or just.


IT is EDUCATION that has shown religion to be nonsense - and
Every YEAR we find more and more scientifically - that refutes religions claims.

WE have millions of proofs that contradict religions statements. - ANd not a single piece of testable and verifiable proof that a god exist - much less that it is the Xtian god.

OUR position is supported - the Xtians IS NOT