(May 6, 2013 at 10:47 am)Gabriel Syme Wrote: No we don't need to conclude that.
I should have better qualified that. You can either conclude that or continue being deluded.
I'll consider another possibility the moment a logical, rational, and compelling one is presented.
At this point, the only position that is intellectually compelling is that all things require a cause.
Quote:God is the source, the "first mover". God has no creator - God 'just exists'. The same way that truth 'just exists'. (indeed, truth is an aspect of God).
Truth is a term, one created by human beings.
Quote:Now, If you dont accept that God just exists, then you are essentially saying that we "just exist" - which is the exact same position (applied to a different subject) and which requires the exact same leap of faith.
That's not a sound deduction at all. I don't feel that we do "just exist". I feel there is a cause to our existence. Mine is just a far more plausible and rational one, and I accept the holes for what they are: holes.
It's arrogant to assume that you can fill holes without a reasonable amount of knowledge, information, and reason to do so.
In that arrogance, you, and your predecessors, assert god. But not just one, clearly defined god, which might lend a little credibility to the matter. No, literally millions of gods have been introduced during the course of human history.
If there truly were a personal god that revealed himself to men, surely there would not be so much confusion about who he really is.
Quote:And it would obviously be the height of ridiculousness to suggest that flawed, ignorant, weak, mortal men can "just exist" but "God" (and everything that noun implies) cannot.
Absolutely, only human beings don't just exist. All the evidence points to an seemingly endless number of causes.
Nothing about existence suggests a non-contingent singular cause.
Quote:God exists, my good fellow - like so many on here, you are just going to have to deal with it.
Damn! And I was hoping you wouldn't realize the trick is simply to declare as much!
Now it's so.
Well, I'm off to purchase a statue of budda. That's the way to go, right?
Quote:(Saint) Thomas Aquinas dealt with this topic quite magnificently, back in the 11th century. All logic and reason point to God, (Like truth, these are aspects of God), there is no escape.
You had me at "Saint". Now that's credibilty for you!
