(May 8, 2013 at 8:49 pm)Godschild Wrote: You say this as if I believe parents are evil, I did not, you just want to make Christians look bad even if you have to twist their words into lies, that's totally dishonest of you.
And, I didn't say you did believe this, but your argument made the assumption that being a parent is the same as God making people. Parents bringing kids into a dangerous world is not evil. Making a dangerous world and putting kids into it is evil. Adam did not make death or disease or calamity. He did not choose to be in the world he was in. He did not choose to be made.
Ryan Wrote:God did not force them to sin, so how does that make God responsible, and do not give me an atheists typical answer of He had foreknowledge. Foreknowledge does not make one responsible for another's action. If you're having an inappropriate relationship with another person and your best friend knows about it, does that make your friend guilty because he/she did not tell your spouse. As a matter of fact you would call your friend guilty if he/she told on you.
No, he did not force them to sin, and that is not what I am saying he did. What he did was make it possible for them to sin, not by the tired old Christian excuse of 'free will', but by placing temptation in their path and not making the consequences clear to them. How could Adam and Eve have any realistic concept of what death entailed? Neither of them had seen a person die or suffer or go without.
If God had not placed that tree in the garden, brought it to Adam's attention (would he have even thought twice of this tree otherwise?) and gave a person with no concept of death (or of what warnings even mean, he was never even warned before) a vague warning of death, how would Adam and Eve ever sinned on their own? God made humans curious, as well, so that also is his responsibility.
It is all arbitrary. The two lived in the garden with no rules. Sin did not exist until God decided to make sin exist by making sin possible.
Quote:You and I are not paying for Adam and Eve's sin, we are responsible for our on sins. I thank God I'm not responsible for the sins of others.
This you say, and then immediately after, you contradict yourself:
Quote:The inheritance comes through the fall of Adam and Eve when they disobeyed God. The problem with you is you're not willing to take on the responsibility of your actions.
I have no problem taking responsibility for my actions when they have a negative effect on real people. I have a big problem taking responsibility for not being perfect, because I was not made to be perfect. I have a big problem saying sorry to God if he made me what I am. I have an enormous problem prostrating myself before a being responsible for crimes vastly more evil and cruel than anything I've ever done to anybody.
