Why do we need morals?

[The Grand Nudger]

For me, stealing feels wrong therefore it is wrong. You can't use logic to conclude that stealing is wrong because it isn't wrong from a rational point of view, neither is cheating or lying etc.

It's coming from a fairly rational point of view when goals and consequences are leveraged - as I did. Nevertheless, I don't require that morality be confined to reason myself. I'd only insist that reason be applied, even if we applied it to an irrational premise. Such as a desire or a goal (not always irrational, but often enough to mention).

I know of a person who doctored his Oxford 1st class degree and then he took in a job in IB in Cyprus. Is he a scam artist? Sure. But why is that immoral, why is that wrong? Logically, that is a rational thing to do.

Who said you couldn't do the rational thing and be "in the wrong" or the irrational thing and be "in the right". Further, something may be right wrong, rational, or irrational (and many combinations thereof) simultaneously. The terms are not interchangeable.

If you want money, and you successfully scam others to get it, that is not "wrong".

Yeah, it probably is, if by "scam" you mean "defraud". Doesn't mean it's illegal though, or that there aren't ameliorating circumstances. Everybody's gotta eat.

But it might feel wrong yes. My innate conscious tells me it's wrong, and that's all that matters. Sometimes using the brain does not payoff. Arguing logically doesn't work.

If it feels that way, then by your own definition - it's wrong. Speaking of things that don;t pay off "it feels that way" is pretty high on the list. Don't get me wrong. I run with "it feels that way" most of the time myself. I couldn't explain to you why I don't, personally, murder people. I just don't. I could explain why I wouldn't - but I'm not actively thinking of that each and every second of the day, thus preventing me from murdering people (though I;d accept that what I've been taught about the subject has affected my "feelings" on the same). Simultaneously I found it very easy to pull the trigger on people. Who'd have thunk it eh, human beings being paradoxical creatures with conflicting moral imperatives.



To elaborate upon why I don't like your definition (in truth, ours, because I use it too-and ignoring that it may "feel that way" to you because all that you have been taught about it.....)...There are people who do not wish to have their things stolen, but do not feel that it is wrong to steal your things. We call those people thieves. So perhaps it;s clear that you and I aren't even approaching it from the same angle - as one can hold any combination of both opinions simultaneously? You're working from (and honestly terminating at) "feelings". I'm going for a goal, which has the advantage of being quantifiable. If we had some disagreement, you would only be able to repeat "I feel, I feel, I feel" - whereas I would be able to say "Here's the goal - this gets us there, this does not". Even if you "felt differently" so long as we were working towards the same goal then my approach is workable. Yours is terminal to discussion. You feel that way. Either I believe you or I don't. Since when did what we feel become synonymous with what was right or wrong though?

Considering the theif above, who doesn't "feel" that it;s wrong to steal from you. Are you content with that? Gonna let him thieve from you at will because you have a difference of opinion and his is as valid as your own? No, you aren't (though because our system is goal based and not absolute based you do actually have that choice- the choice not to press charges). Are you going to do something to him (some punitive action) and when he asks why say "Because I feel that way".

Doubt it. I won't, in any case.