RE: Why do we need morals?
May 13, 2013 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2013 at 1:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 13, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Darkstar Wrote: The reason that such a difference is possible is that property is not an objectively valuable thing. Humans aren't born with property (well, maybe an inheritance, but that is beside the point), and humanity survived its early days without such a concept (as most, if not all other animals do). Of course, just because something is natural/unnatural does not make it right or wrong, but because property is not an inherent part of people.The whole part of what is natural is not interchangeable with what is "right" sort of puts the lie to the idea of "innate rights" from the outset. You have life, that's natural, it's valuable to you (but perhaps not to another) and so calling it innate (not quite the same as inalienable, granted) is murky.
Quote: The objects may be objectively valuable to serve a certain ends, but that does not necessarily provide enough of an objective basis to say that property is a human right.When something is valuable - for a given end- is is not objectively valuable, it's subjectively valuable. If something were valuable to all given ends it might be called "objectively valuable", imo. Property is a human right, in many places, but not innate, or objective. It's granted, established, maintained, enforced (and sometimes encroached upon). Goals and means, goals and means.
Quote:The three unalienable rights were life, liberty, and property, but the last was changed to pursuit of happiness. Life is something all people have, and if you have no value for that, morality falls apart immediately. Valuing people in any way other than slaves ultimately leads to the other two (not property).Well, already mentioned a bit about this above..however, you can assign very little value to the life of another and morality still holds very well within the group you belong to (we're good at this). Its more likely that you have assigned a value to your own life - and then extended that value to the lives of others (in my case by again referencing the value I place upon my own and the consequences of denying the same to another), -and- a reason to value another's. Again, this isn;t something we're born with uniformly, and it wouldn't matter if we were.
Quote:I know I never put these things as succinctly as you, so sorry if my post doesn't actually make any sense.I can;t speak for Apo, but I think you do very well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
