Why do we need morals?

[The Grand Nudger]

For the species, that would be self-interested, just not for an individual. I think the whole altruism thing evolved out of the self interest of the species, even if it may act against (or change) the interests of an individual.

The trouble with that is in identifying just where the "individual" resides, or why it would act in any specific way counter to or not concurrent with the aggregate that we can demonstrate (the collection of things affectionately referred to as "the individual"), but this cuts both ways, how can one be self interested if there is no self involved? But I'd better calm down...before I rattle Apos dinner bell..

I guess it just seems to me like there should be some way to tell when a goal is obviously off track, other than asking people's opinions. One would think that there would be some criterion by which a goal could be analyzed (i.e. reduce suffering, preserve life and fairness), but of course this would still be open to interpretation, it would have to be, as falliable humans are implementing it and there is no objective way to quantify these things.

Well, I mean.."it seems that there ought to be" isn't any indicator that there is. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned wish thinking. I think, personally, that even if there were some objective morality that we could eventually discover or manufacture, having some quantifiable, goal based system would do a hell of alot of good in the interim - and as to the thread title, in that light one can wax on about all the reasons we might need this or find it useful. Similarly, I don't imagine that an absolute and objective morality would really be all that useful to us (and I positively demand that the tools we carry be useful). I'm of the opinion that we'd always find a need for qualifiers, ameliorating circumstances, exceptions. If this were true, then an objectve and absolute morality wouldn't be so entirely different from a pragmatic goal based one.