In a world without God...

[John V]

Those questions have been asked and answers searched for since man became an introspective creature. The simplest answer is that these things happen because they can happen.

That's interesting. My pastor says basically the same thing. If at the end of page 1 everything was very good, but mutable, it would necessarily change for the worse. I'm not sure that I agree that because something can change it must change - still thinking about it.

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[quote='Drich' pid='458952' dateline='1370613394']
That's the start of an attempt at misdirection but there's no wriggling out of this one Drich! The entire thread has been about comparing 2 types of hypothetical world: one with a god, one without a god. They method of comparison we're using is measuring 'things that happen'. In the universe without a god, things 'happen for non-god-created reasons'. You then followed up with the question "If these things are true (i.e. if things happen for non-god-created reasons) in a world you believe to be with out God, then why can't the very same explanation work in a world with God?". My response was that 'they can if you have a god that has no consequence' but by definition, an inconsequential god is useless; it has no explanatory power, no action, no function and cannot be a causal agent. The explanation couldn't work in a world with a consequential god (e.g. the abrahamic god) because things wouldn't 'happen for non-god-created reasons', god would be the cause. So you could not have an interaction with god in a world where things 'happen for non-god-created reasons'.

Speaking of misdirection, your argument appears to be a false dichotomy. You term it as either a completely inconsequential god or a completely consequential god, without explaining why there can't be a partially consequential god, which would allow for Drich's argument.