Why Secular Morality is Superior

[John V]

I guess that's why they are one of the world's dominant religions then, huh?

Seriously, religions that aren't concerned with gaining more followers don't prosper as much as the ones that do make such concerns a priority.

This is why religions seem to concern themselves so much with victimless crimes like blasphemy, idolatry and apostasy. This was my main point of this paragraph and it applies to Christianity, at least according to its scriptures. This is a point your response glossed over.

To my knowledge the Amish have similar or more severe positions re: blasphemy, idolatry and apostasy as other Christians, yet increasing their numbers isn’t a high priority. This isn’t glossing over the point. When you make a claim regarding the nature of religion, showing counterexamples is sufficient to refute the claim. A big problem with your initial post is that it has a number of such sweeping and unsupported generalizations regarding both religious and secular positions. You’d do well to restate it, narrowing the scope to a single religion.

Actually, yes it does. Blasphemy, idolatry and apostasy. How are these harmful? Yet they're so important to your god, if scripture is any indication.

Consider what is the one sin that Jesus will not forgive. You do know what that is, right? I'll let you answer that one. Hint: It's in three of the Gospels.

Again, the simple fact that you can identify these as distinct shows that the lines are clear, not muddy.

Irrelevant. When we stand before Jesus on "Judgment Day", he'll forgive all the things we did as long asked him to while on earth. But if we are good people who didn't believe, we are not saved.

Consider, the people who do not keep the law, they shall be called "least" in where...?

Irrelevant to Christianity, since faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation.

1. As noted, Christians are under secular law, and so are required to do at least as much restitution as anyone else.

2. You apparently don’t realize that there is more to a Christian’s standing in the afterlife than just salvation. There are rewards and loss thereof based on our actions after salvation, so we have continuing incentive to live morally. See 1 Cor 3:11-15.

Beside the point. As a secularist, I have no easy option to gain forgiveness except by asking the ones I've wronged for it. I have no option to look up in the sky and say "Sorry about that Jesus" and have the slate wiped clean.

As already noted, Christians are under the same secular obligations as you, and the law of Moses required restitution where applicable.

If you need more, this passage directly refutes your charge and further shows your ignorance of the Bible.
Matt 5
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

The Golden Rule is an excellent rule-of-thumb for morality but hardly unique to Christianity and it works just fine without either God or any religion.

And the fact that the Bible includes it shows that the Bible does offer explanation regarding morality, refuting your charge that it merely says GodWillsIt.

Do tell. You won't mind elaborating, I hope?

Sure. Your point 3 regarded satisfying rational explanations of morality. A system which is admittedly arbitrary by definition does not supply such answers.

No, this is, in fact, what they do. Next time Ryft is around, I'll let him babble that nonsense for you and you can see that many slick apologists do use this tactic as I allege.

As previously noted, you do this yourself, although I wouldn’t call you slick at it.

Actually, I was but none of them mean a damn thing on the bottom line of who is saved and who is damned.

A religion can offer sweet words as much as it likes about "love your neighbor" and "do unto others" but these don't mean much to a god that will damn me no matter how loving I am or how much I consider the feelings of others if I didn't believe the correct unproven metaphysical stuff.

Biblically, everyone is damned. This is an act of justice, which is getting what you deserve. Salvation is not an act of justice, it is an act of mercy and grace. Mercy and grace are undeserved, and God can deal them out as he likes. Like many critics, you incorrectly conflate justice and mercy.

At one time, the institution of slavery was defended and supported. At one time, genocide was a common practice in war, even by "civilized" generals. Today, slavery is recognized in most circles as an abominable practice and genocide is regarded as a war crime. I never said humans created a perfect paradise on earth. I simply said our morality has evolved.

I doubt that means much to the slaves being raped every day in licensed German brothels.

Our society's condemnation of rape is still, regrettably, not where it should be but has still gotten better from more primitive times. We don't require a woman to marry her rapist but Yahweh does.

Where does he require that? I’ve debated this before and doubt you’ve really considered the passages in question.

Consider also Yahweh's admonishments to commit genocide, his rules for slavery and even his rules for how to properly rape your sex slaves. All this indicates a more primitive and barbaric concept of morality, certainly by today's standards.

The word genocide itself was only coined in the twentieth century to refer to current events. And again, sex slaves in licensed German brothels.

I never suggested that getting rid of religion will get rid of all evil in the world.

You stated plain out that secular morality is superior. Regarding group dynamics, both religious and secular groups can be dangerous. It’s a function of groups, not religion.

There are other means to get good people to do evil things. However, what makes religion more dangerous than, say, secular nationalism, is that these other ideologies have "reality checks" that can eventually stop them. Communism collapsed because people eventually realized that it wasn't creating a "worker's paradise" as promised. The proof, for any other ideology I can think of, is in the pudding.

Religions also have reality checks that can eventually stop them. If the proof is in the pudding, consider that Europe hasn’t had an inquisition in some time now.

Can you support that Christianity in particular or theism in general has been a net evil to mankind?

Atheists don't fly planes into buildings.

Answer: no, you can't support it, as there are many other factors regarding benefits and detriments to society than flying planes into buildings.

OK, show us the results and we’ll look at them.

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

Seriously? A paper by a dinosaur illustrator with no training in social research is the best you can do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_S._Paul#Religion