What's the point?

[The Reality Salesman01]

I'm sorry that so many of you feel like this place has noting more to offer but overused and repeated discussions.

Here's my two cents: I don't come here for the debates, especially the religious ones. I'm here because of Lilly's crazy threads, because of Orogenicman's pictures of the universe, because of TGAC's news updates, because of Whateverist's photos of his garden and of Heidi Rose and Fletcher, because of Apo's and Stimbo's eloquence and because of the new members, who are entirely new to all this. I'm here because of my friends.

Well said. It seems as though my post has been misunderstood. Those are all fantastic things to cherish in a forum, and I don't for a second wish to discredit any of them. I was just venting about a specific thing that bothered me. I did not mean to suggest that there aren't ANY good things on this forum, only that I wish the debates could be more constructive at times. Nothing more. I'm sorry if I've offended you. I assure you, it was not at all my intention to do so.

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I see several different aspects to this...


Then there's a third aspect. Perhaps it's part of my personality, but it's not uncommon that the substance of a debate will become a temporary obsession with me. Inigo's arguments about morality and ethics didn't interest me explicitly, as I'm not knowledgeable about ethics and don't consider it an area I want to concentrate on; however, as I went about my day, I found myself turning the various parts of his argument over in my mind, analyzing it. It's perhaps impossible for me to think about something without analyzing it. But regardless, the subject occupied my thoughts unbidden. And there are times when someone or some argument will frustrate me to where I find myself pre-occupied thinking about it. However, many times when that happens, I'll flip into a different mode. I'll stop thinking about how to resolve my feelings by manipulating the discussion or things external, and turn it back on myself and ask what is it inside of me that is causing me to react in this way? As a Taoist, someone invested in virtue ethics, and as someone for whom monitoring the causes of my behavior is an essential skill (chronic mental illness), I find doing this both fairly natural, as well as very powerful. As long as you are simply reacting*, you are controlled by the other; when you can get under that and discover how to regain control, you've accomplished something more important than a debate victory. I look upon these experiences and the fruits of such reflections as important opportunities to learn about myself, and to improve who I am.

Or, as Lao Tzu wrote: "Mastering others requires force; mastering the self takes strength."

Thanks for providing your perspective! This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to read. I found the latter part above to be of particular interest to me. I too, at times, become obsessed with certain arguments at times. I have found myself waking up in the middle of the night before, and having an AH-HA!-moment about a specific thought I couldn't accept, but had difficulty putting my finger on just why. I am consumed with my ideas and opinions sometimes, and this can be a wonderful place to line them all up for examination by others. There's something quite satisfying about having an idea validated by others that struggle with the same thirst for understanding, and it can, at times, be the only cure for such intellectual constraints. I even started wondering if I have something wrong with me. What is it inside me that makes me so addicted to arguing? Why is it so hard for me to turn off my mind when it comes to things I am unwilling to agree with? I see errors in thought processes in my day to day life, and it drives me crazy! So many things could be simplified if everyone would just take a second to examine what they believe to be a good idea, and ask themselves, "Why do I think that?", and be prepared to change their minds if they cannot produce a valid answer to such a question. Religous or not! So many processes and policies could be simplified if the makers and instruments of them were more willing to critically challenge them. If only society was as concerned with the importance of analyzing thoughts and ideas as they were with practicing religion, what a more productive world this would be. I can't seem to turn it off, and without a place like this available to me, I wonder what I would do with myself. Thanks for listening. Have a wonderful day!

For all the Americans...Happy 4th!