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At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 1:20 am
At what point does faith become insanity?
When we discuss religion we often hear "That doesn't count because these people don't represent religion X because they are crazy/ fundamentalists, they are not normal Xtians, etc.", but where is the dividing point or demarcation line that divides normal religious people from insane ones?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 1:42 am
at the point when one is more faithful than par for the course.
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 2:02 am
(April 29, 2023 at 1:20 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: At what point does faith become insanity?
When we discuss religion we often hear "That doesn't count because these people don't represent religion X because they are crazy/ fundamentalists, they are not normal Xtians, etc.", but where is the dividing point or demarcation line that divides normal religious people from insane ones?
Do you believe that the criteria for judging who's insane are unchanging and based on some kind of essential human nature? Or are they socially determined, contingent on current norms?
Monsieur Foucault would like a word with you.
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 2:42 am
bel’s motto is never allow religion be judged by a standard that does not only praise them as a whole, but also absolve them of all blame individually.
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 3:29 am
It's basically self maintained. The only difference between mental illness and some states of belief are whether or not they're expected within the community a person is from, or maladaptive in the same.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 5:22 am
“The difference between faith and insanity is that faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence, whereas insanity is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence.” William Harwood
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 5:33 am
(April 29, 2023 at 2:42 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: bel’s motto is never allow religion be judged by a standard that does not only praise them as a whole, but also absolve them of all blame individually.
You've gone off-topic already, in post #4.
To determine when someone is insane, you'd have to decide on some criteria for what constitutes insanity. So I'm asking a pertinent question.
If you believe in some essential human nature, and that we can judge when someone is deviating from that, you might be able to judge who is insane. However, standards like that in the past have tended to change. For example, it wasn't long ago that a person with a penis who said he was a woman would be considered delusional. But things have changed.
Is someone necessarily insane if they are a danger to themselves or others? Or are some sane people just dangerous? If someone's mental state makes him unable to function in society, is that a sign of insanity? Or might there be societies that are so insane that sane people can't function in them?
These are legitimate questions.
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 5:56 am
(April 29, 2023 at 5:33 am)Belacqua Wrote: (April 29, 2023 at 2:42 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: bel’s motto is never allow religion be judged by a standard that does not only praise them as a whole, but also absolve them of all blame individually.
You've gone off-topic already, in post #4.
To determine when someone is insane, you'd have to decide on some criteria for what constitutes insanity. So I'm asking a pertinent question.
If you believe in some essential human nature, and that we can judge when someone is deviating from that, you might be able to judge who is insane. However, standards like that in the past have tended to change. For example, it wasn't long ago that a person with a penis who said he was a woman would be considered delusional. But things have changed.
Is someone necessarily insane if they are a danger to themselves or others? Or are some sane people just dangerous? If someone's mental state makes him unable to function in society, is that a sign of insanity? Or might there be societies that are so insane that sane people can't function in them?
These are legitimate questions.
Anom is NOT off-topic. The OP is asking if there is a point where religious faith qualifies as insane behaviour. If anyone has gone off-topic, it'd be yourself, by ignoring the question and attempting to define insanity with the aim of - here I think Anom has a valid point - attempting give religious nutters a pass.
Foucault was a kiddie fucker. Pick a better source.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 7:51 am
Once you accept the nonsense that is religion, you've taken that first step towards the chasam of delusion.
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RE: At what point does faith become insanity?
April 29, 2023 at 11:01 pm
(April 29, 2023 at 5:33 am)Belacqua Wrote: To determine when someone is insane, you'd have to decide on some criteria for what constitutes insanity. So I'm asking a pertinent question.
If you believe in some essential human nature, and that we can judge when someone is deviating from that, you might be able to judge who is insane. However, standards like that in the past have tended to change. For example, it wasn't long ago that a person with a penis who said he was a woman would be considered delusional. But things have changed.
Is someone necessarily insane if they are a danger to themselves or others? Or are some sane people just dangerous? If someone's mental state makes him unable to function in society, is that a sign of insanity? Or might there be societies that are so insane that sane people can't function in them?
These are legitimate questions.
I agree. I just don't think that it helps your argument except to illustrate religion's social and cultural delusions.
Imagine a murder trial where the defendant volunteers the information that he regularly participates in ritual cannibalism. His lawyer makes no attempt to stop this admission, the prosecution doesn't bother to examine the point further, the judge doesn't bat an eyelash, and the jury simply nods and smiles. Does nothing in that scenario strike you as just a touch surreal?
Now imagine the same murder trial where the defendant states that he is a Christian who regularly takes communion.
These individuals hold a belief that is not simply counter-factual but a violation of one of the most basic taboos known to anthropology. Under any other circumstances the notion of magically transmuting wafers and wine to flesh and blood and then consuming them would be utterly repellant and good grounds for having an individual's mental well-being called into question. But rebrand it as religious tradition and it becomes entirely acceptable. The ability of religion to utterly supplant social norms so thoroughly and pervasively should be a concern for any thinking person.
It's noteworthy that this example utilizes a relatively harmless Christian tradition, at least in terms of the direct damage to the public. We haven't delved into some of the really ugly bits to find something that looks to be about seven beer short of a six pack.
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