Atheism and morality

[pocaracas]

You say that I am wrong to distinguish between moral beliefs and morality itself (the object of the belief). Can you explain?

People (including myself) have done so, but you just ignore and keep trumping your "moral beliefs" thing... You failed to notice that either people are not understanding what you mean by "moral beliefs" or they understand, blow holes in your "logic" and you don't even notice...

Beliefs have objects - things they are about. So there is always a belief, and then what the belief is about.

yeah... like gods, fidelity of the spouse, tomorrow's weather....

If you accept that there are moral beliefs, what are they about if not morality?

Who said I accepted such a thing?
There are morals.
There are beliefs.
But "moral beliefs" is something I can't comprehend.
And it's this very first principle in your logic that is faulty, the premise.... it's the same problem of other logical sequences that end up with: a god exists.
There's always a premise that doesn't correlate with reality.

They're not beliefs about cheese. They're beliefs about morality. hence 'moral' beliefs. I don't know what you mean by a moral belief unless you mean a belief about morality. That's how I use the term.

This "explanation" didn't help... "moral beliefs are beliefs about morality"... wow... just wow!

So, my belief that Xing is wrong is a moral belief for wrongness is a moral feature and I believe Xing to have it.

If an action is perceived as wrong by a human being, it is perceived as wrong.... not believed as wrong... see how your premise is failing to make sense in my head?

The wrongness is not the belief. That's incoherent. For then what is the belief 'about'? itself? How can a belief be about itself?

And here you enter the common theist word salad in an attempt to make some point about a word...
This is why I said you sounded like a theist

YOu then proceed to do what everyone else does - you provide a causal story about the development of our moral beliefs. Yes, assume I accept it. That is not a story about how morality has come into being. It is just a story about how we have come to 'believe' that morality exists.

If you've been paying attention, I refuse to attribute a belief to morals... It makes no sense, to me.
We've come to accept that certain behaviors benefit the group, the tribe, society. This group of behaviors has been labeled "moral rules".
The word "morality" means something like "conformity to these moral rules".
The casual story I and everyone provided you tells you how our species developed the rules... some are so ancient that have become embedded in our genes, some require teaching.
But all are grounded on behaviors and their consequences to the other elements of the group and/or to the group as a whole.


This is how I view morals.
This is why I view your notion of "moral belief" as nonsensical.
People have told you this, but you dismissed it with a wave of the hand, trumping your nonsense all over the place...
I understand it is very difficult to get a new concept across, but you could try a bit better to explain your "moral beliefs"... because, as I see them, they make no sense.