If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?

[Mystical]

Ronedee, I don't even know what ball park lavatory you crawled out of, but you're the single most "loathed" person I can think of on this forum. I honestly have no idea why you're here. You're only a witness to arrogant stupidity and do your gods' reputation a disservice. Are the Catholic forums not fulfilling enough for your need for discourse?

Or did they tell you to stfu too?

God is good to you. Fine. I have no qualms whatsoever with you fr0d0, believe what you want. I just don't understand-- which is what I thought we were trying to rectify. Yes the unfathomable part I may have pulled out of my ass so to speak but that's in essence what is being said, I thought. I thought you said that god is good because you look at his actions as being good even though you will never know why just that you trust god and his actions and intentions are good. Thats what I got from our convo, anyways. Correct me if i'm wrong if you feel like it. Or don't, I'm not sure if we will ever come to an understanding because you are incorrect in your ascertainment of my Christian background. I'm understandably frustrated that I will never live up to being a real Christian in your eyes. Even though I was. Hell, even Ronedee is: Pagan prayers and all; Because of Christ and the acceptance of his atonement for sin. I'm pretty sure Christians even claimed the Mormons last election, too.

Kudos to you for trying to understand Missy.

You have the information but you don't trust it. You'd have to trust it and then act upon it to have faith, so you're a long way from understanding.

I'm sorry you feel that I discount your whole experience. I don't. When I first became a believer, it was the result of a lot of hard study. Still faith was hard. I then became a keen believer, a bit over confident I would say. I still didn't understand a lot of huge stuff, like how Christ was God at the same time. I got some crappy answers that didn't help. Point being, no one is perfect. The terrible stuff you describe and the justification for it is all misdirected belief. The best people are susceptible to it. Somehow an aim to be so right turns out to produce something so wrong.

Love underpins my view of the world. Neutrality underpins yours.

In my view, how do you think you're doing? On a scale of fulfilled love where would you put yourself? I'm talking every aspect of life now.

The terrible things I experienced as a child were in faith and partly because of it. Is it wrong then to expect the god who made our bodies, to heal it? Not mine, my fathers. We never asked god of anything but strength for the day and got nothing but zapped of that strength day after day after day after day. And still thankfulness in our hearts for our mere existence in this world. I know you think what you think but youre so wrong about me. We lived day by day in prayer tears and faith, fr0d0. My mom still does. We leapt before knowing where. I may complain about my dad but he's a good person like you. He has a very skewed view of the world from both religion and mental illness. The former took over his ability to treat the latter, because he trusts his whole being to his maker. However misguided you see us, we love (d) and trust(ed) as humbly as any human could. No, no one's perfect. As a Christian though god didn't expect us to be anything but that which he created. My father believes this with every fiber of his being and its the only thing that's both hindered him all his life, and now keeps him from overt suicide. If he could get the mental health treatment he needs maybe he wouldn't consider the suicide factor his parents inherited to him. Who knows? I don't. All I know is I never have claimed I did know what's the right path to go because I let god decide that. And I got no where with nothing so I concluded he's non existent. The lack of evidence even in the face of lifelong faith overwhelms me is all.

As for now: I don't know you'll have to ask those whom I love. I haven't changed much, I still put others before my own well being. Bad habit that I know you'll just say was misdirection. But when you climb a tier of faith for as long as I did, yeah you eventually will conclude your very body is expendable as is anything on this earth; because its not yours its gods. And gods will reigns supreme. Just ask those missionaries when they visit from Africa. I was headed for doctors without borders, when my body gave out on me.