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The Problem of Imperfect Revelation: Your Thoughts?
#13
RE: The Problem of Imperfect Revelation: Your Thoughts?
(July 11, 2013 at 2:12 am)Godschild Wrote: God is not omnibenevolent, where did you get that idea from, I know it wasn't from scriptures.

MFM Wrote:Aside from the Bible's abundant references to God's supreme goodness (far moreso in the New Testament than in the Hebrew Bible), I'm using omnibenevolence not because it's necessary for the argument,

If it's as you say "not necessary for the argument," then remove it from the argument and let's see where the argument stands.

MFM Wrote:but because it is a VERY common claim by Christian apologist. Even one of the more prominent of them, Alvin Plantinga, uses the concept in his Modal Ontological Argument for God's existence under the term "all-loving". Hence, I use it.

It's not used here by Christians and I know very many Christians and they do not use it, it's not a word as in a dictionary that I have seen. The word benevolence is found once in scripture in the KJV all recent translations use the proper translation, a husbands duty, in one form or the other. You did not use all-loving, and using omnibenevolent does not carry the same meaning. God hates sin, so where are yu trying to carry the meaning of all-loving.

MFM Wrote:For my argument, I only need it to be the case that God wants for the people he creates to go to heaven and that his actions must be consistent with his nature.

He does want everyone to go to heaven, and His actions show this, however he does not force anyone to choose Christ, so your use of omnibenvolent and your argument fail.

GC Wrote:God will not violate the free will He's given us, your problem is you believe God gave free will in the whole of our lives, this is no scriptural. God gave us free will to choose Him or to reject Him, outside of that the amount of free will God allows you to have depends on His will.

MFM Wrote:It isn't really "free will" if it's 'given' to you, and can be reneged by God. That's "will-insofar-as-I-allow-it", i.e NOT free.

God does not renege on the free will you have, you are free to choose Christ or to reject Christ, God never forces this decision, it is totally ours to act upon. Where did I say God reneges on this choice. God has never promised the rest of your life is lived in total free will, the scriptures support this through out.

GC Wrote:With these two points wrong all of it fails.

MFM Wrote:Considering the poorly thought out nature of your objections, I disagree.

The only thing poorly thought out is your original argument, it holds no water because you have self defined words to suit your argument.

GC Wrote:


MFM Wrote:Omnibenevolent merely means the same thing as "all-loving".

No it does not, omnibenevolent is not a defined word, it is not a word used by Christians nor is it part of Christian doctrine. Instead of inserting a word into your argument that is not recognized by the Christian community or it's doctrine is not honest, your deceit is to discredit Christianity through a dishonest means. The word benevolent is not used in scripture.

Quote:The Bible never actually uses the word "omnipotent" or "omniscient", but are you really stupidly going to claim that the Bible does NOT refer to God's unparalleled power, knowledge and goodness?
Also, unbelievers didn't make the word up, believers did (e.g. Plantinga and the like).

You're correct the Bible does not us those words, they were not a part of that language, they are much more recent words. However the Bible and God say He's all-powerful and all-knowing, it also says that God loves everyone, it also says He disciplines those He loves. Discipline and benevolence are not alike, discipline is punishment and benevolence is charity and God is not always charitable.

(July 11, 2013 at 4:26 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
(July 11, 2013 at 2:12 am)Godschild Wrote: God will not violate the free will He's given us, your problem is you believe god gave free will in the whole of our lives, this is no scriptural. God gave us free will to chose Him or to reject Him, outside of that the amount of free will God allows you to have depends on His will.

Omniscience and free will are incompatible.

Go stand in front of a mirror and argue with yourself, I'm tired of such old arguments that atheist will not recognize the Bible never recognizes absolute free will.

(July 11, 2013 at 4:39 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Funny how God gave us this free will and then gets pissed off at us for using it. But as I've pointed out before, what kind of free will is it when the only two choices allowed are A. Love God and B. Go to hell to be tortured for eternity. That's about the same kind of free will as "hand over the money and nobody gets hurt."

Making the positive choice in both situation seems to be the smart reasoning does it not.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: The Problem of Imperfect Revelation: Your Thoughts? - by Godschild - July 11, 2013 at 11:08 pm

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