RE: The Problem of Imperfect Revelation: Your Thoughts?
July 13, 2013 at 4:33 am
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2013 at 4:44 am by Godscreated.)
(July 13, 2013 at 3:35 am)genkaus Wrote:Quote:You're the one who made the claim that Christians do use the word, now show me proof that Christians use this word. You have not thus far given any proof of anything you have stated period, you have failed on all accounts. you're a childish person that doesn't want to admit your wrong, If scripture does not call God benevolent then why do you believe you can use omnibenevolent to describe God?
There you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibenevolence
Wikipedia Wrote:The acknowledgement of God's omnibenevolence is an essential foundation in traditional Christianity; this can be seen in Scriptures such as Psalms 18:30: "As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him," and Ps.19:7: "The law of the Lord is good, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple." This understanding is evident in the following statement by the First Vatican Council[original research?]:
The Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church believes and acknowledges that there is one true and living God, Creator and Lord of Heaven and earth, almighty, eternal, immeasurable, incomprehensible, infinite in will, understanding and every perfection. Since He is one, singular, completely simple and unchangeable spiritual substance, He must be declared to be in reality and in essence, distinct from the world, supremely happy in Himself and from Himself, and inexpressibly loftier than anything besides Himself which either exists or can be imagined.[3]
The philosophical justification stems from God's aseity: the non-contingent, independent and self-sustained mode of existence that theologians ascribe to God. For if He was not morally perfect, that is, if God was merely a great being but nevertheless of finite benevolence, then his existence would involve an element of contingency, because one could always conceive of a being of greater benevolence.[4]
Theologians in the Wesleyan Christian tradition (see Thomas Jay Oord) argue that omnibenevolence is God's primary attribute. As such, God's other attributes should be understood in light of omnibenevolence. Christians believe in the idea of unconditional love.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8 NIV)
To start with I do not believe that wiki is an expert on Christianity, it is only a copy of things stated whether real or not. In the above I saw no definition that God is omnibenevolent, some Christians may argue this and I eluded to this earlier but, that does not make it true, scriptures never indicate God is omnibenevolent. Benevolence: charitable nature, an act of kindness, charity. The scriptures are full of God doing such things, yet there are scriptures that tell us that God is not always charitable, nor kind in the sense of being charitable. God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, God flooded the world, God drowned the Egyptian soldiers, God allowed Job's misery, these are not charitable acts, if God had been omnibenevolent He would have over looked people's ways. God is love and completely just, He's also benevolent, but not always.
(July 13, 2013 at 4:12 am)genkaus Wrote:(July 13, 2013 at 3:58 am)Godschild Wrote: You are incorrect, God never interferes with our choice of accepting Christ as our savior, this decision is totally up to us, so what else would you call this than freedom to decide to exert our will upon a situation.
The government gives you the free will on deciding to smoke or not, you're not forced one way or the other, correct? However you are not free to exercise your right to smoke anywhere you desire, you are held accountable by laws.
Congratulations on missing the point spectacularly.
The government doesn't give free-will - we have it in our natural state. As in, if there was no government, we'd still have the freedom to smoke or not to smoke. The government - therefore - infringes upon that freedom in order to safegurad freedom of others. But then, the government never said that they wouldn't violate our free will.
Similarly, even if the baloney about Christ and god was true, then the freedom to choose Christ wouldn't need to be "given" - that's a choice we'd automatically have. That, as well as all the other choices possible. So, if you say that your god only allows us that one choice, then it means he is violating our free will in every other choice.
You have no free will in anything but your choice of Christ, and God doesn't interfere in your free will, He asserts His will which is above the will of anyone, he will not allow your choices to interfere in His ultimate will. It is He who controls the universe.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.