reason vs faith vs reality

[wandering soul]

I would argue that they start with the conclusion first and then work backwards. In most religions that means they start with God or Gods and go from there. If you question the God premise the whole things falls apart.

The unique thing about science is that it starts with a hypothesis and then uses experimentation or further research to either confirm the hypothesis or reject it and then move on to the next one.

.....
You know that this could go on and on forever. I will, however, stop here.

well, I may have reached the end of anyone remotely interested in this line of thought

quick reply to Max

yes, you are right that that is the method for religions. And add to that those who do apply any sort of rational, empirical analysis to the ideas are only the intellectual elite. The average adherent doesn't actually engage in any analysis at all. The religious professionals are simply engaged in "proving" the "rightness" of their positions to the believers - and enforcing the "wrongness" of everyone else.

But there are traditions which do not start or end with God but have conducted rather rigorous and repeatable experimentation on consciousness itself. There are different schools of thought, different conclusions and different encompassing reality structures. But that there are multiple traditions engaged in the same types of work on the same range of observable, experienced data, to my mind puts them in a strong position.

one brief further clarification for the last interested mind and then I'll leave too if no one is interested


Reality:
I select this word because of (a) its comprehensive inclusivity and (b) because it alone conveys the level of personal investment which is displayed when it is challenged.

Paradigm, world view, perspective, outlook, are all very good ideas/concepts but reality encompasses all of this and far more as well. And although we are each personally invested in each of these, with varying degrees of discomfort involved in changing them, we sometimes can and do move away from one paradigm, view, etc. and into another. When our reality is challenged however, we mount every defense of the emotions, psyche, mind, and energy to defend it. Our actual very identity is so intimately and completely undifferentiated from our conceptions of reality that we feel a primal visceral recoil when it is challenged.

I use the word reality because that is how I see everyone expressing themselves.

Yet I mentally moved out of my familial reality structures when I was a teenager in the 1960s and found there were many other realities - cohesive, consistent, rational, empirically verifiable, providing verifiable explanations of the universe, humanity, life and everything. The one thing none of them were, and I realized could never be, was comprehensive. To get the whole picture I would have to start finding and collecting them.

I find I can be inside each of these, experience life through that reality, find it satisfying, meaning-creating, aesthetically pleasing, socially supporting, etc etc. I can also step outside of them and see them as others see them and see all of them interacting in relation to each other.