Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 3, 2025, 3:37 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Proof of Christianity
RE: Proof of Christianity
(August 14, 2013 at 8:14 am)Vicki Q Wrote: It's a little bit more than “variations”. Castor being allowed to share eternity with his brother in the form of twin stars has no connection at all with the C1 Jewish concept of the general resurrection. Again, it's oranges and hand grenades.

I think I know what the issue is here...

Quote:Let me recap the issue:

I am asking the question “Why did the disciples conclude that vital, central elements of the Torah could now be ignored?” .Your answer was that they were employing a rebirth myth from Egypt. It's a non-sequitur.

Yeah, I've got it: you've completely misunderstood me. I'm not implying that the two stories are connected in any literal sense, but rather in a broader, human sense; these stories repeat, over and over throughout history, with variations according to culture and narrative context certainly, but the basics repeat. Your initial claim was that the idea of singular, personal resurrection would be so outlandish to the ancient Jewish people, as compared to their original resurrection claims, that it would never occur to them. I'm not saying they cribbed from other cultures, I'm saying that singular resurrection stories are endemic, a part of the human mindset. Death is the one universal, after all.

As to the question you've asked here... could be many reasons. Perhaps the old elements were no longer convenient politically or sociologically? Perhaps the weavers of the narrative were simply inconsistent in their doings; there are plenty of outright contradictions in the bible to attest to that. It could be any number of things, and to conclude that the only way this turn of events could have panned out is for the stories to be literally true is ludicrous.

Quote:I am asking the question “Why did the disciples conclude that the Kingdom of God had arrived?”. Your answer was that they had used the story of Achilles. It's a non-sequitur.

Again, not my answer. My specific answer to that question would be, who knows? We're talking about superstitious desert people from the bad old days. Nothing in this question points at the truth of the resurrection either.

Quote:I am asking the question “Why did the disciples conclude that the Jewish meta-narrative about God's people was redefined around the person of Jesus?” Your answer was that they had used an obscure centuries old resurrection legend from Greek literature. It's a non-sequitur.

Well, given that we can't even confirm that Jesus existed outside of inherently biased biblical accounts, I'm going to go ahead and say that on balance, the answer to that question probably isn't "Because Jesus really existed and everything he was purported to have done literally happened."

Quote:I think what's happening is that you're continuing to run with a favourite explanation against the more common Xian argument that 'The resurrection is forensically watertight', without realising that I'm making a different kind of argument. Now I would like to spend time contesting your claims about drawing from other religions, but since it's unconnected to my argument, it'll have to wait for another day.

Seriously, none of those were my contentions. Big Grin
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 7, 2013 at 5:13 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Doubting Thomas - August 7, 2013 at 5:27 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Darwinian - August 7, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 7, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Drich - August 7, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Wolf - August 7, 2013 at 10:26 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by John V - August 8, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 8, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by John V - August 8, 2013 at 12:46 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by downbeatplumb - August 8, 2013 at 1:01 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by John V - August 8, 2013 at 1:09 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by downbeatplumb - August 8, 2013 at 1:25 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by John V - August 8, 2013 at 2:29 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 8, 2013 at 1:09 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by John V - August 8, 2013 at 3:56 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Drich - August 10, 2013 at 6:37 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by CleanShavenJesus - August 10, 2013 at 7:27 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Chas - August 10, 2013 at 7:54 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Wolf - August 10, 2013 at 8:02 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Cato - August 7, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Silver - August 8, 2013 at 2:42 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Michael Schubert - August 11, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 7, 2013 at 10:06 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 7, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 8, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Rahul - August 8, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by downbeatplumb - August 8, 2013 at 1:36 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 7:37 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 7:48 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Jackalope - August 10, 2013 at 7:51 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 7:54 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 7:55 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 8:08 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 8:20 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 8:25 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 8:46 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 8:46 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 8:51 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 10, 2013 at 8:58 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 10, 2013 at 9:11 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Locke - August 10, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Chas - August 10, 2013 at 11:40 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Locke - August 11, 2013 at 12:07 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Chas - August 11, 2013 at 9:00 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by CleanShavenJesus - August 11, 2013 at 11:36 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Chas - August 11, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 11, 2013 at 2:48 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Locke - August 11, 2013 at 9:28 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Wolf - August 11, 2013 at 10:46 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Locke - August 11, 2013 at 3:44 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 11, 2013 at 3:52 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 11, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Wolf - August 11, 2013 at 4:35 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by CleanShavenJesus - August 11, 2013 at 10:21 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Chas - August 11, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 11, 2013 at 12:54 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 11, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 11, 2013 at 1:12 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Locke - August 11, 2013 at 1:19 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 11, 2013 at 1:27 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 11, 2013 at 8:45 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 11, 2013 at 11:33 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 11, 2013 at 11:56 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 11, 2013 at 12:03 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 11, 2013 at 12:11 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 12, 2013 at 6:35 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by LostLocke - August 11, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 11, 2013 at 1:49 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 12, 2013 at 5:56 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 12, 2013 at 6:31 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 12, 2013 at 7:05 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 12, 2013 at 7:23 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 13, 2013 at 6:31 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 13, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 14, 2013 at 8:14 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 14, 2013 at 8:50 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 15, 2013 at 1:11 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 14, 2013 at 8:55 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 12, 2013 at 6:58 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 11, 2013 at 4:16 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 11, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 11, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 11, 2013 at 5:23 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 11, 2013 at 5:39 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 11, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 6:40 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 8:43 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Locke - August 15, 2013 at 3:26 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 8:50 am
Re: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 10:36 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 1:11 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Crossless1 - August 12, 2013 at 1:16 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 1:30 pm
Re: RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 1:25 pm
Re: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 2:07 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 2:09 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 12, 2013 at 2:13 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 2:20 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 12, 2013 at 2:23 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 2:36 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 2:45 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 2:51 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 12, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 12, 2013 at 3:07 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 12, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 12, 2013 at 3:33 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Crossless1 - August 12, 2013 at 3:52 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 12, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 13, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 5:30 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Wolf - August 12, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 5:41 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Chas - August 12, 2013 at 5:52 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Crossless1 - August 12, 2013 at 5:49 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 12, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 13, 2013 at 2:58 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 13, 2013 at 3:06 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 12, 2013 at 9:09 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 9:31 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 13, 2013 at 1:01 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 12, 2013 at 10:01 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 12, 2013 at 10:02 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 12, 2013 at 10:10 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 10:16 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 12, 2013 at 11:32 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 13, 2013 at 3:07 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 13, 2013 at 9:50 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 13, 2013 at 3:34 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 13, 2013 at 3:50 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by NoraBrimstone - August 13, 2013 at 4:31 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 13, 2013 at 7:25 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - August 13, 2013 at 11:11 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 13, 2013 at 7:27 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 13, 2013 at 6:21 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 13, 2013 at 6:46 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 13, 2013 at 7:35 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Psykhronic - August 15, 2013 at 3:39 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 15, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Vicki Q - August 16, 2013 at 6:22 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 16, 2013 at 8:54 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by fr0d0 - August 16, 2013 at 12:18 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by gall - August 16, 2013 at 12:53 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 16, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Captain Colostomy - August 16, 2013 at 2:18 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Simon Moon - August 16, 2013 at 2:14 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by pineapplebunnybounce - August 16, 2013 at 7:28 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Esquilax - August 17, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Bad Writer - August 16, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: Proof of Christianity - by Minimalist - August 16, 2013 at 7:34 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Orthodox Christianity is Best Christianity! Annoyingbutnicetheist 30 9404 January 26, 2016 at 10:44 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Christianity vs Gnostic Christianity themonkeyman 12 9771 December 26, 2013 at 11:00 am
Last Post: pineapplebunnybounce
  Moderate Christianity - Even More Illogical Than Fundamentalist Christianity? Xavier 22 20667 November 23, 2013 at 11:21 am
Last Post: Jacob(smooth)
  Proof that Christianity is destructive reverendjeremiah 24 13407 February 9, 2013 at 12:51 am
Last Post: Tnmusicman
  Atheists: How do you explain this Irrefutable PROOF of Christianity? Charkie 26 15443 June 15, 2011 at 8:04 am
Last Post: Violet



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)