RE: Why does god want to cut off women's hands?
September 6, 2013 at 10:03 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2013 at 10:07 am by John V.)
(September 6, 2013 at 9:25 am)Esquilax Wrote: So... I'm now being told to believe that god couldn't get what he wanted and had to settle?You're not being told to believe anything. I'm showing you applicable scripture. You can believe what you want.
Quote:And this is the same god that, during the old testament where this slavery stuff is first endorsed, murdered the majority of the world in a global flood because people weren't doing what he wanted?Judgment isn't murder.
Quote:Besides, the actual content of the message rather disagrees with your surmise; a god who disapproved of slavery would have included rules against harming them, which he didn't do. Instead, he allowed violence against slaves, assuming they don't die right away. These aren't the words of a god who isn't cool with slavery.First, don't think of American slavery when considering slavery in the Bible. People couldn't be kidnapped and sold into slavery. Slaves were generally debtors or prisoners of war.
Ex 21
16 “He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.
You're correct that some violence short of death was permitted.
Ex 21
20 “And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
So, there was a rule against killing slaves. Further, violence resulting in permanent damage was forbidden:
Ex 21
26 “If a man strikes the eye of his male or female servant, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for the sake of his eye. 27 And if he knocks out the tooth of his male or female servant, he shall let him go free for the sake of his tooth.
So, there were rules against harming slaves, albeit not absolute.
Further, slaves were forbidden from working on the Sabbath. Strange that men inventing a law for their own benefit would include this provision.
Another interesting provision regarding slaves:
Deut 23
15 “You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. 16 He may dwell with you in your midst, in the place which he chooses within one of your gates, where it seems best to him; you shall not oppress him.
This certainly doesn't benefit slave owners.
Quote:There's no conciliation here, no attempt to lessen the suffering of the slaves, or any kind of slow, progressive retraction of things; you can't phrase this as some kind of learning process when it's also a staid and unchanging law.As shown, there are laws that lessen the suffering of slaves.
1 Cor 7
21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings.
The last part of this underscores the earlier point that slavery then was largely debt slavery which prudent people could generally avoid.
Philemon 1
8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love.
...
15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother.
There's your change - what a slave owner "ought to do" is free his slaves.
(September 6, 2013 at 9:53 am)tokutter Wrote: After 2000 years still can't get together on what it all means.No, but we've gotten together on what most of it means. Yes, there are a few passages which have become ambiguous over time.
Quote:For the record JohnV....what version do you useI typically use the NKJV. When I hit a snag, I go to bible gateway and check a bunch of versions. I also go to blue letter bible and check underlying Hebrew and greek occasionally.
Or are you like a couple relatives of mine who have 5 different versions lying aroung......and when they hit a snag like the one above.....use the version that lines up with what they want
Quote:The slight of hand ......never endsI don't see that acknowledgment that no one translation got everything correct is equivalent to slight of hand.