Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 26, 2025, 3:55 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Argument Against an Infinite Past
#11
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past
(September 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote:
(September 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm)max-greece Wrote: Well.....lets start with a circle - find me the beginning.

Now consider time - we are used to it flowing in one direction from an earlier point to a later one. We therefore surmise time had a beginning and we can put that at the beginning of the universe (which is known as space/time). There is no before the beginning as time itself did not exist (nothing existing - as in nothingness).

Describing 'nothingness' as 'existing' is a contradiction.

Quote:Several thoughts going on from this include:

Suppose time is circular.
Was nothingness infinite? Can nothingness be infinite?
What if (as is proposed under Quantum Physics) nothingness is inherrently unstable?
Could a universe form in those circumstances (if the net energy state of the universe is zero)?
Without outside interference?

Calling empty space 'nothingness' is unhelpful and bad in my opinion. Empty space is something, not nothing. And nothingness could not have properties like instability.

OK.

I am not calling empty space nothingness. I am calling what existed prior to the universe as nothingness - no fields, no particles, no gravity - nothing.

To illustrate. Matter and anti-matter collide - they eliminate each other completely. That resultant state is nothingness.

The universe from nothing theory is essentially that process in reverse.

The argument as to whether we can refer to nothingness as existing is mute. In that we are making reference to the something that makes up the universe I think we can refer to the existence of nothingness - if nothing else to recognise the possible state where there is nothing.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Argument Against an Infinite Past - by MindForgedManacle - September 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Jackalope - September 9, 2013 at 2:13 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by max-greece - September 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by MindForgedManacle - September 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by max-greece - September 10, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by MindForgedManacle - September 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by max-greece - September 10, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Faith No More - September 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Brian37 - September 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by MindForgedManacle - September 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Jackalope - September 9, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Brian37 - September 10, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Jackalope - September 10, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Angrboda - September 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Anomalocaris - September 10, 2013 at 2:29 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Anomalocaris - September 10, 2013 at 3:09 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by MindForgedManacle - September 10, 2013 at 5:22 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by max-greece - September 10, 2013 at 5:35 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Anomalocaris - September 10, 2013 at 6:46 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by MindForgedManacle - September 11, 2013 at 12:32 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Neo-Scholastic - September 10, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Faith No More - September 10, 2013 at 10:22 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Neo-Scholastic - September 12, 2013 at 9:15 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by genkaus - September 12, 2013 at 9:34 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Neo-Scholastic - September 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Whateverist - September 12, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by max-greece - September 13, 2013 at 1:16 am
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Cato - September 10, 2013 at 11:38 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Neo-Scholastic - September 12, 2013 at 11:07 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Angrboda - September 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm
RE: Argument Against an Infinite Past - by Ben Davis - September 13, 2013 at 8:35 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Infinite Regress. Edwardo Piet 4 6323 July 2, 2024 at 12:19 pm
Last Post: Jackalope
  [Serious] Is the Past Real? Neo-Scholastic 202 36440 January 10, 2023 at 1:41 pm
Last Post: HappySkeptic
  [Serious] An Argument Against Hedonistic Moral Realism SenseMaker007 25 4719 June 19, 2019 at 7:21 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Argument against Intelligent Design Jrouche 27 5109 June 2, 2019 at 5:04 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  The Argument Against God's Existence From God's Imperfect Choice Edwardo Piet 53 12166 June 4, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Objective Moral Values Argument AGAINST The Existence Of God Edwardo Piet 58 17808 May 2, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  The argument against "evil", theists please come to the defense. Mystic 158 77880 December 29, 2017 at 7:21 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Presentism and Infinite Chain of Past Events GrandizerII 48 13806 December 13, 2017 at 7:37 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  2 Birds, 1 Stone: An argument against free will and Aquinas' First Way Mudhammam 1 1330 February 20, 2016 at 8:02 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  An argument against God Mystic 37 11865 October 20, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Last Post: TreeSapNest



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)