A small thanks to the resident Theists..

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GC,

This is not meant to be mocking. What I am going to attempt to do is to show you why your logic flies in the face of everything (this) atheist is about:

I understand and welcome an honest debate.

"God wants use to rely on Him for our answers, being omniscient He can guide us to truth in His word. There's nothing wrong with His word, it's humans that make the controversies, people have a desire to be better or know more than others (self righteous)."

This is the sort of education that we currently use all the way up to the end of Junior school. The teacher tells us and we learn it.

I did not mean that God dictates to us and we live as robots, life's far to complicated. Sunday school would be more of an appropriate comparison.

As education progresses, however, there is more and more encouragement, and need, to find the answers on our own. The lessons at this stage of our education are the fundamental basis of the development of everything about us. Teaching kids to think for themselves, and research for themselves is absolutely critical.

This is the way the teaching in most (I want say all) churches goes. As the children age the teaching turns more to how to apply God given knowledge in many different ways and this applies all through adulthood, remember this is life we are speaking of, no science, history, math and ect. When things do not work out for someone in the church, that person should seek help from God and ask for advise from the church, just as a student might do with a teacher and the material being studied.

It is the desire to be better, or to know more (not really than others - that 's a projection) that drives us forward. There is nothing self-righteous about it. Its just part of an innate desire to understand, explore and then possibly utilize.

I agree with what you say and I should have made my statement clearer. All Christians should desire to learn as much as possible about God and His desires for us and apply what we learn to our lives and for the service to others. What I meant by the self righteous was this type of person flaunts what they have learned or believe they have learned, using it to try and control others. For the ones I said used scripture to tear it down, like Ehrman, pride themselves on their ideas of what scriptures say.

"...they want to have their own revelation for their own idea, whether it be to tear down God's word or to look like they know more than others."

Well...they want to understand (its part of the human condition). If that understanding conflicts with God's word then it conflicts. Its then the individual's choice what to do at that point. In many cases - an atheist is born, in some another religion is chosen or sought and in some, I guess, they change their ideas to fit God's.

Here I disagree, they want to fit God's word into there chosen life style or to control the way others believe. This type of person is not interested in God's truth, why, because it doesn't fit their desires.
For God's word to be effective in one's life it can not be conflicting with a person's thoughts. The truth of God's word must be applied to one's life to bring one into a greater understanding of God, so one can grow in a relationship with Him. I do not believe atheist are born, IMO they are made by circumstances in their lives.

For reasons I do not know I have a drive to understand things. I spend a huge proportion of my free-time on the net. That divides up between reading the news (particularly anything on the latest scientific advances), watching Youtube videos that explain and review items ranging from the latest mobile phones to the latest theories in physics to new dinosaur discoveries to .... well anything that catches my eye, and then recently on here where I like to discuss and share ideas.

In this we might be called brothers, I'm the same way. I just bought a bicycle, but before I did I did research on bikes to find what would work best for my needs. Once I decided which bike I study the bike and all it's parts so I would be familiar with it before it came into the shop. When it came to the shop I paid extra to be able to help build the bike so I could further understand this thing I purchased. I do this in my woodworking and most things I am interested in, learning is a delight in my life.

" The Bible is far more than an instruction book, it is a guide through life with revelation coming through His word to use as we need it, either for one's own life or to help teach others. '

The most interesting part of that sentence is "as we need it."

For some, possibly many, it appears we don't.

Again I disagree, being that I have experienced what God can do in a person's life I just can not imagine how one could not benefit from the whole of God's word. I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, it's that I know first hand how God can change and shape a life into something so much more than it was before. It's like tasting a new food for the first time and finding out it's as good as everyone said it was and one would never know if they rejected it without tasting. I also know that there will be those who find it distasteful, but could that be a mental picture that was drawn before the tasting, could it be a self imposed idea?

GC

GC,

I really wanted to reply to this properly but life it rather getting in the way.

Suffice to say:

Does the level of commonality between us strike you at all?

We obviously come from very different backgrounds and have apparently contradictory opinions on many things and yet, and yet, look how often we might agree on things. Says something - just not entirely sure what.

Suppose we equate some things together (at a high level). Suppose, for example, we make God (you) and conscience (me) synonymous as our guide to life.

Suppose, further, we take what Jesus said is the most important commandment with the second, the golden rule being applied.

For me the loving my neighbour as myself comes first with my conscience being my guide.

There is similarity there. Outwardly, at least, you and I might be quite difficult to distinguish on the basis of our actions.

This implies to me something along the lines of "there is more than one way to skin a cat."

In other words - the routes chosen may be different but the destination (lets call that a good life - if we can without wincing) is the same.

To me that means that God/conscience is an essential part. Which of the 2 is not really important (indeed which God is not really important - there were people as "good" as you and I worshipping Zeus).

Food for thought?