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Why atheism is irrational
#97
RE: Why atheism is irrational
(September 26, 2013 at 8:31 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
(September 26, 2013 at 8:12 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: In the context of atheism, in particular my argument,

I believe atheism as a position to be rational if it is arrived at through sound reasoning.

In light of that, we ask "What is the probability that children prize sound reasoning over other forms of arriving at knowledge/truth?" "What is the probability that children USE sound reasoning as opposed to adults?" "What is the probability that people who are so preoccupied with hate and anger base their philosophical views on hate and anger as opposed to reason?"

First of all, please post studies or stats that show that atheists, even those that became atheists at a young age, are 'preoccupied with hate and anger'.

You seem to think that people that are atheists from a young age, as adults, are not able to justify their disbelief using sound reasoning.

Quote:That's my methodology here.

Well, it's faulty. Time to rethink it.

Quote:Now I've granted before and I'll grant again that this doesn't let me conclude that ALL atheists are irrational. But I think we can assign some meaningful probability estimates such that the probabilities are significantly low given the factors I've mentioned.

Without data, this is nothing more than unsupported crap.

Provide evidence, not your conjecture, that people that grew up atheists are not able to justify their position with rational and sound reasoning.

Quote:Actually, being an atheist logically entails the belief that atheism is true. This is the case EVEN IF atheism is a lack of a belief. Which I think is a nonsensical definition anyway. We can discuss that some other time.

No it doesn't. All atheism entails is that the burden of proof for the existence of a god has not been met.
Don't be silly. You don't need studies to show something that's confirmed by everyday experience. Atheists are even trying to make money off of the stereotype. I think the least amount of intellectual integrity among atheists would compel you to admit that there is a lot of anti-religious or anti-Christian hatred and anger in the community. Even if it's entirely justified, it's there. To even try and deny it suggests to me that there's a lack of integrity on the part of the questioner.

Now if you, Simon Moon, can justify your atheism with reason I will be surprised. I don't even think you're up to the challenge. I'm willing to be proved wrong, but I almost never am.

edit: If atheism entails that "the burden of proof for the existence of a god has not been met", then being an atheist entails affirming the belief that "the burden of proof for the existence of a god has not been met". I just made this point earlier, but it looks like this faulty idea is widespread in the community.

(September 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm)Rationalman Wrote:
(September 26, 2013 at 8:12 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Why do you post if you have not read the full scope of my claim? Read it again. If you're interested in a serious discussion, we can do that provided you know what you're talking about.

I've concluded nothing solely on the fact that people call me names. In fact their name-calling strokes my ego a little. Wink

Oh ok, you can't refute my points, i get it

Is this guy serious?

Your name is rationalman, and you cannot deduce that people are uninterested in reasoning based off of false premises?

You got a ways to live up to your username, buddy.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 24, 2013 at 11:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 24, 2013 at 11:16 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Brian37 - September 25, 2013 at 12:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 24, 2013 at 11:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by artistriley - September 24, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 24, 2013 at 11:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Captain Colostomy - September 24, 2013 at 11:32 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Minimalist - September 24, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Walking Void - September 24, 2013 at 11:55 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Dragonetti - September 25, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Ryantology - September 25, 2013 at 12:34 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Whateverist - September 25, 2013 at 1:23 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Kayenneh - September 25, 2013 at 6:20 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - September 27, 2013 at 9:49 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 27, 2013 at 9:57 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - September 27, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 27, 2013 at 10:26 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 25, 2013 at 6:48 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 25, 2013 at 6:49 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 25, 2013 at 6:50 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by gall - September 25, 2013 at 7:47 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Whateverist - September 25, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by gall - September 25, 2013 at 9:48 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - September 25, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - September 25, 2013 at 10:17 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by gall - September 25, 2013 at 10:19 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Whateverist - September 25, 2013 at 10:42 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - September 25, 2013 at 10:45 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 25, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Faith No More - September 25, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Chas - September 25, 2013 at 10:27 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Airyaman - September 25, 2013 at 10:40 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jackalope - September 25, 2013 at 10:40 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 25, 2013 at 10:42 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Whateverist - September 25, 2013 at 10:48 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Clueless Morgan - September 25, 2013 at 11:29 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 25, 2013 at 11:29 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - September 25, 2013 at 11:32 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by JesusHChrist - September 25, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Heir Apparent - September 25, 2013 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Kayenneh - September 25, 2013 at 12:21 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 25, 2013 at 8:55 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Brian37 - September 26, 2013 at 10:15 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Doubting Thomas - September 26, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Brian37 - September 26, 2013 at 10:27 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Doubting Thomas - September 26, 2013 at 9:10 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by bladevalant546 - September 26, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Faith No More - September 26, 2013 at 10:22 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Angrboda - September 26, 2013 at 12:09 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Faith No More - September 26, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Faith No More - September 26, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by little_monkey - September 26, 2013 at 11:07 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by max-greece - September 26, 2013 at 12:18 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Dunno - September 26, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Lemonvariable72 - September 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Gilgamesh - September 26, 2013 at 4:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 8:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 26, 2013 at 8:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by little_monkey - September 27, 2013 at 9:40 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Whateverist - September 27, 2013 at 10:34 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Faith No More - September 27, 2013 at 11:37 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by max-greece - September 26, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Gilgamesh - September 26, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Ryantology - September 26, 2013 at 4:46 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Gilgamesh - September 26, 2013 at 5:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Simon Moon - September 26, 2013 at 5:52 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 4:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jiggerj - September 26, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by freedomfromforum - September 26, 2013 at 5:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 26, 2013 at 5:28 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jackalope - September 26, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 26, 2013 at 7:26 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 7:43 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 26, 2013 at 8:33 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Airyaman - September 26, 2013 at 5:59 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 26, 2013 at 6:04 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Simon Moon - September 26, 2013 at 6:12 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Creed of Heresy - September 26, 2013 at 6:27 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 7:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Creed of Heresy - September 26, 2013 at 9:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 9:57 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Creed of Heresy - September 27, 2013 at 12:46 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 3:00 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by CleanShavenJesus - September 26, 2013 at 7:09 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 26, 2013 at 8:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 26, 2013 at 8:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 8:35 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 26, 2013 at 8:38 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 8:42 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 27, 2013 at 5:28 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Simon Moon - September 26, 2013 at 8:31 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 9:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 9:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 9:46 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 26, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 9:21 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 10:03 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 26, 2013 at 10:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 10:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 11:00 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 27, 2013 at 7:15 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 9:27 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Rahul - September 27, 2013 at 9:33 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 9:46 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 27, 2013 at 9:48 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jackalope - September 27, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 27, 2013 at 6:46 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Captain Colostomy - September 26, 2013 at 9:58 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Ryantology - September 26, 2013 at 9:58 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 10:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - September 26, 2013 at 10:19 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jackalope - September 26, 2013 at 10:35 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 10:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Captain Colostomy - September 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 26, 2013 at 10:52 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 27, 2013 at 5:56 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Airyaman - September 27, 2013 at 11:09 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by downbeatplumb - September 27, 2013 at 2:08 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Simon Moon - September 27, 2013 at 2:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 2:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by downbeatplumb - September 30, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 30, 2013 at 2:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zen Badger - October 1, 2013 at 5:31 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Doubting Thomas - October 1, 2013 at 9:55 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by downbeatplumb - October 1, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by ManMachine - October 1, 2013 at 4:47 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by downbeatplumb - October 2, 2013 at 1:16 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Mister Agenda - September 27, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cyberman - September 27, 2013 at 3:34 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Faith No More - September 27, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jackalope - September 27, 2013 at 4:58 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Gilgamesh - September 27, 2013 at 8:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 9:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 9:55 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 11:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 27, 2013 at 11:50 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Airyaman - September 27, 2013 at 10:25 pm
Re: Why atheism is irrational - by NoraBrimstone - September 27, 2013 at 10:59 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - September 28, 2013 at 12:00 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by c172 - September 28, 2013 at 12:09 am
Re: Why atheism is irrational - by NoraBrimstone - September 28, 2013 at 12:20 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Lemonvariable72 - September 28, 2013 at 12:36 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 28, 2013 at 6:51 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Creed of Heresy - September 28, 2013 at 8:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 29, 2013 at 4:03 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 29, 2013 at 4:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 29, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 29, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 29, 2013 at 5:03 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Silver - September 29, 2013 at 5:08 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - September 30, 2013 at 8:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Jackalope - October 1, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 1, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 5:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 1, 2013 at 5:42 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 1, 2013 at 8:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 9:17 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 1, 2013 at 9:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - October 1, 2013 at 10:51 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 2, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cato - October 2, 2013 at 1:05 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 2, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 3, 2013 at 5:59 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 3, 2013 at 6:43 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 3, 2013 at 9:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 3, 2013 at 10:34 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Creed of Heresy - October 4, 2013 at 12:09 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 4, 2013 at 4:16 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 4, 2013 at 4:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 4, 2013 at 6:42 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 4, 2013 at 7:04 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 4, 2013 at 7:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 5, 2013 at 3:13 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 5, 2013 at 5:55 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 5, 2013 at 10:41 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 6, 2013 at 4:48 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 9, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 3, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 2, 2013 at 1:15 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Cato - October 1, 2013 at 11:16 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - October 1, 2013 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Tonus - October 1, 2013 at 5:38 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 29, 2013 at 4:35 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 29, 2013 at 4:40 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 29, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 29, 2013 at 5:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 29, 2013 at 6:00 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - September 29, 2013 at 6:10 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by gall - September 30, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 1, 2013 at 5:08 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Simsim - October 1, 2013 at 10:32 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by ManMachine - October 1, 2013 at 11:30 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 11:10 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - October 2, 2013 at 12:07 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - October 2, 2013 at 12:52 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 2, 2013 at 1:02 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - October 2, 2013 at 11:58 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Captain Colostomy - October 2, 2013 at 12:55 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Brian37 - October 2, 2013 at 12:08 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Creed of Heresy - October 3, 2013 at 8:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Airyaman - October 3, 2013 at 8:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Writer - October 3, 2013 at 9:46 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Airyaman - October 3, 2013 at 10:44 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 9, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 3:41 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 10, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by LastPoet - October 10, 2013 at 3:46 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 9:29 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Sword of Christ - October 10, 2013 at 5:39 am
RE: Why atheism is irrational - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 5:44 am

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