Why atheism is irrational

[pocaracas]

You seem to be working under the assumption that people are born as believers and then proceed to reason out of such belief.
I grant that some people are made to believe at a very early age, and then realize that that belief doesn't make sense... even if they don't have all the analytical skills off an adult...they have some and that's enough. Not all people use their skills in the same way, that's why you may see very intelligent people who never managed to remove the religion parasite of their minds.

So, if a person is not born a believer in their parents' religion, then the default position is no belief at all... no reasoning required.

Otoh, what the heck dies this mean? "belief that atheism is true"

Actually, I think people are born agnostic. Indifferent to the matter of God's existence, although at least one academic claims children are born believing in God (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...laims.html). I haven't had the time to look into it, however.

Ah, Vinny.... so much to learn, you have...

"Indifferent to the matter of god's existence" sounds a lot like it is contained in "lacking the belief that a god exists", hence, it is a form of atheism.

Yes, muslims claim everyone is born a muslim, but then get sidetracked...
Go figure, huh?

One thing I'm sure about is that people almost always claim to "convert" to atheism. They cite an age, a moment in time, a turning point for their atheism. This suggests that there is a conscious shift, and people are not born atheists.

I wouldn't call it a conversion... more like a realization.
At those ages, people do not usually belong to a given religion.. they just go along with their parents, caregivers, or other influential person(s).
If you ask a 9 year old if he believes that god exists, they may reply "yes"... but if you keep drilling, you'll find that they believe what has been told to them... which is somewhat different.

Can you spot the difference?
- I believe that my wife is not having an affair.
- I believe my wife's claim that she's not having an affair.


If you have no belief system to begin with, you can't be converted into anything else.
My realization moment came at the ripe age of 10... it came for a silly reason, yes, but it was enough to entice that "maybe" I mentioned earlier... and everything went downhill from there.
It was a silly reason, but a reason nonetheless... not irrational, just easily counterable by any apologist... had I spoken out at the time, someone would probably have put something in my mind that would have quenched this "maybe"... instead, I kept quiet... heck, I thought I was the only person in the world onto this godlessness thing!
Anyway, it was rational... within my perception of the world...
It wasn't worthy of a peer-reviewed paper, no...

I think what's happening here is that you're going off of the faulty "Lack of belief" definition, which naturally compels you to assume babies lack belief, therefore babies are atheists. But this reasoning leads to absurdity, as likewise snips, snails and puppy dog tails "lack belief" and thus thus deserve to count as atheists. Silly, right? Yeah, I thought so too!

Yeah... silly willy... the definition of atheist pertains to people, only.
And, last I checked, babies are people.

Now what I mean by "belief that atheism is true" is the simple position arrived at by reasoning. If you decide to become an atheist, or even to stay an atheist (if we believe people are born that way), you do so because you believe that atheism is a good position to hold. That it is rational, supported by evidence and most likely true.

This amounts to a belief. So atheism cannot escape having any positive beliefs.

That is a bit of faulty reasoning by your part, it seems to me.

1- I never decided to become an atheist, nor have I come across any account of any atheist having decided that. Everything after that sentence is wrong, but let's indulge ourselves, just because of your acceptance of the possibility that people are born atheists and may remain so for the entirety of their lives.

2- "you believe that atheism is a good position to hold." no, just no... there's so much wrong here... let's see if I can convey it all.
Let's define "atheism" as the state of a lack of belief in the existence of any god. This is what I (and others) perceive atheism to mean. What in this definition requires a belief that this is a good position?
I hold the position of atheism because I lack a belief in the existence of a god.[period]
If it's good or bad is irrelevant.

3- My atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief, as I'm sure others have pointed out to you...

I don't have much faith that you'll acknowledge what I'm telling you... It is my impression that you'll continue to trump your skewed definition of atheism, instead of actually accepting the definitions espoused by those who actually identify themselves with that label.