Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 29, 2025, 1:17 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why atheism always has a burden of proof
#73
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof
(September 27, 2013 at 12:10 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: I find Plantinga's modal ontological argument pretty compelling. Once I actually understood it, that is. If that argument is sound (valid reasoning + true premises), then I think it serves as significant evidence. And greater minds than you or I have tried in vain to refute it.

It has been refuted. If you want to open another thread on the subject, we can discuss.

But here's the interesting thing, Plantinga himself said the following about his own argument:

“Our verdict on these reformulated versions of St. Anselm's argument must be as follows. They cannot, perhaps, be said to prove or establish their conclusion. But since it is rational to accept their central premise, they do show that it is rational to accept that conclusion”

Why do you place more confidence in the argument than Plantinga himself?

Basically what Plantinga is saying here is, "Since I already believe in 'God' for other reasons, my version of the Ontological argument, despite the fact that the premises don't support the conclusion, reinforces my already existing belief."

Not impressed...

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - September 26, 2013 at 9:41 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Minimalist - September 26, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Strongbad - September 26, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Paraselene - September 26, 2013 at 10:06 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 11:01 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - September 27, 2013 at 6:01 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 11:03 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 26, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 27, 2013 at 7:23 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by MitchBenn - October 21, 2013 at 8:11 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 26, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Airyaman - September 26, 2013 at 10:59 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Airyaman - September 27, 2013 at 12:01 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - September 27, 2013 at 1:43 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - September 27, 2013 at 3:30 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 27, 2013 at 6:25 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Gilgamesh - September 27, 2013 at 9:26 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Paraselene - September 27, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Gilgamesh - September 30, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - September 28, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Simon Moon - September 28, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Rahul - September 29, 2013 at 12:14 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by downbeatplumb - September 27, 2013 at 12:30 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by c172 - September 27, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 12:40 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 12:44 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by c172 - September 27, 2013 at 1:15 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by max-greece - September 27, 2013 at 2:21 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 2:47 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 3:10 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Airyaman - September 27, 2013 at 6:53 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by gall - September 27, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Mister Agenda - September 27, 2013 at 1:08 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Walking Void - September 27, 2013 at 2:35 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Walking Void - September 27, 2013 at 1:18 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Walking Void - September 27, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by popeyespappy - September 27, 2013 at 4:44 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Walking Void - September 27, 2013 at 4:57 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Gilgamesh - September 27, 2013 at 9:02 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 9:22 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Paraselene - September 27, 2013 at 11:07 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 11:30 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Minimalist - September 27, 2013 at 11:56 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - September 27, 2013 at 11:59 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - September 29, 2013 at 9:49 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - September 28, 2013 at 1:02 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Whateverist - September 28, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Whateverist - September 28, 2013 at 9:28 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by downbeatplumb - September 30, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - September 30, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Mister Agenda - September 30, 2013 at 2:27 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Airyaman - October 1, 2013 at 6:47 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - October 2, 2013 at 7:37 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 2, 2013 at 9:22 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 2, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Simon Moon - October 4, 2013 at 12:39 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 4, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - October 2, 2013 at 10:16 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Angrboda - October 2, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 2, 2013 at 4:17 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 4, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 4, 2013 at 1:41 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 4, 2013 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - October 5, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 5:47 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 10, 2013 at 7:01 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 10, 2013 at 7:17 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 10, 2013 at 10:20 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - October 10, 2013 at 7:17 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Angrboda - October 10, 2013 at 11:31 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 10, 2013 at 7:28 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 5:03 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 10, 2013 at 5:48 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - October 20, 2013 at 11:07 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Darwinian - October 21, 2013 at 8:20 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - October 20, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by DLJ - October 21, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Sejanus - October 21, 2013 at 8:24 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 10, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 8:32 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 8:47 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Strongbad - October 10, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 3:58 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 9:05 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 9:15 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 9:26 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 10, 2013 at 10:42 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 10, 2013 at 11:04 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 10, 2013 at 11:15 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 21, 2013 at 9:20 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 21, 2013 at 9:26 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by LastPoet - October 21, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 21, 2013 at 10:02 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 21, 2013 at 11:48 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Angrboda - October 21, 2013 at 1:59 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - October 21, 2013 at 12:46 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by LastPoet - October 21, 2013 at 2:32 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cinjin - October 21, 2013 at 6:13 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 21, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 21, 2013 at 9:55 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zazzy - October 21, 2013 at 12:46 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 21, 2013 at 12:51 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 21, 2013 at 1:42 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 21, 2013 at 2:36 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Jackalope - October 21, 2013 at 5:59 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 21, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 21, 2013 at 6:49 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zazzy - October 21, 2013 at 6:53 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 21, 2013 at 7:27 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cinjin - October 22, 2013 at 9:35 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - October 22, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by StuW - October 22, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 22, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 22, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 23, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 23, 2013 at 6:54 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 23, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 23, 2013 at 8:25 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 23, 2013 at 9:16 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 23, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 23, 2013 at 10:58 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Jackalope - October 23, 2013 at 5:31 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 24, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Jackalope - October 23, 2013 at 5:36 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zazzy - October 24, 2013 at 9:40 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 23, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by pocaracas - October 23, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 23, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 23, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 23, 2013 at 12:46 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Tonus - October 23, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 23, 2013 at 2:29 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 23, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Owlix - October 24, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 24, 2013 at 1:42 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brian37 - October 24, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 24, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Brakeman - October 24, 2013 at 10:37 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - October 24, 2013 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 24, 2013 at 10:16 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Writer - October 24, 2013 at 11:22 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 25, 2013 at 10:54 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 25, 2013 at 11:10 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bucky Ball - October 24, 2013 at 10:21 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Owlix - October 25, 2013 at 11:05 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 25, 2013 at 11:16 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 25, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 25, 2013 at 11:33 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 25, 2013 at 11:46 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 25, 2013 at 11:46 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Owlix - October 25, 2013 at 11:24 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Owlix - October 25, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 25, 2013 at 11:50 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 25, 2013 at 11:57 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bucky Ball - October 26, 2013 at 12:01 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bucky Ball - October 26, 2013 at 12:22 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 12:28 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 25, 2013 at 11:54 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 25, 2013 at 11:58 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 26, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 26, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 26, 2013 at 12:09 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 12:09 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 26, 2013 at 12:14 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 12:20 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 26, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 26, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 26, 2013 at 12:48 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 12:55 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 26, 2013 at 1:06 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 26, 2013 at 12:56 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 1:00 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Chas - October 26, 2013 at 9:10 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 26, 2013 at 11:40 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 28, 2013 at 1:09 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 31, 2013 at 8:40 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 31, 2013 at 8:08 pm
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Owlix - October 26, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 26, 2013 at 12:26 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 26, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 12:42 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cato - October 26, 2013 at 1:24 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 1:29 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bob Kelso - October 26, 2013 at 12:47 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 1:11 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 26, 2013 at 1:16 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Polaris - October 26, 2013 at 1:22 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 26, 2013 at 1:26 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Zen Badger - October 26, 2013 at 2:01 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Bad Wolf - October 26, 2013 at 8:36 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Esquilax - October 26, 2013 at 8:44 am
RE: Why atheism always has a burden of proof - by Cyberman - October 26, 2013 at 10:30 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Is Atheism a Religion? Why or why not? Nishant Xavier 91 13524 August 6, 2023 at 1:38 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Family is always asking me to come to religious celebrations Tomatoshadow2 25 4672 April 11, 2023 at 6:24 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Illustrating the burden of proof - pay me! Nachos_of_Nurgle 109 16956 February 18, 2022 at 5:10 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  Why do neo marxist professors always wear 50s glasses, isnt it racist? Demi92 14 4376 July 7, 2018 at 2:05 am
Last Post: Joods
  Why Atheism Replaces Religion In Developed Countries Interaktive 33 8882 April 26, 2018 at 8:57 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II TheReal 53 31583 April 23, 2018 at 4:48 pm
Last Post: Mystic
  Burden proof is coupled with burden to listen. Mystic 59 22595 April 17, 2018 at 1:29 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Why atheism is important, and why religion is dangerous causal code 20 11457 October 17, 2017 at 4:42 pm
Last Post: pocaracas
  Atheism VS Christian Atheism? IanHulett 80 35430 June 13, 2017 at 11:09 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  Why Anarcho-Capitalism Is a Canard and Its Implications for Atheism log 110 25522 January 19, 2017 at 11:26 pm
Last Post: TheRealJoeFish



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)