(September 29, 2013 at 1:38 am)bennyboy Wrote: You are stating things as fact that are not known to be facts. Basically, you've stated the determinist position.
I've stated that what we choose, is what we choose. That's a fact. When you choose an apple over an orange. The deciscion of apple exists. Before the choice is made, all we can do is speculate. But after the choice is made, all we have is THAT choice. Right?
(September 29, 2013 at 1:38 am)bennyboy Wrote: If you want to assert that things could NOT have turned out other than they have, you have the BOP.
I think you may have this part a bit confused. I'm rejecting the concept of free-will on the grounds that it has no evidence. In every instance of choice, there are no re-dos. Once the decision is made, that's it. Every choice is the ONLY choice that is made, for every instance in which it is considered. My choice in words, my choice in clothes for the day. All of them. To say they could have been different is pure conjecture. If you think they could have been different, then you are making a claim that is not consistent with what we experience in this universe. One can always do something different in the future, but that choice, at the time it is chosen, is the only one that will be, and therefore, it is the only choice that can be. Retrospectively, any other, did not happen, and therein could not have happened.
(September 29, 2013 at 1:38 am)bennyboy Wrote: Show that for any given state of the universe, no other subsequent state could have been possible.
I only have my experience of this universe to form my knowledge from. In this universe certain things are true, and others are simply not. What I said was- To say that somebody could have chosen differently, is like saying they could have existed in a different universe. The choice was made. Period. Any post-decision speculation is conjecture at best. Think of the other types of claims that could also be made. Why would anybody that hears any of these take on the burden of proof upon hearing them in order to reject them?
We could have been conditioned to live on Saturn.
Pigs could have evolved with wings.
People could learn to shoot plasma from their eyes.
Ahem...On what grounds does anybody make these claims, and why would anybody else have to prove that in our universe these things did not happen?
Free-will is popular, but that doesn't make it true. Upon closer examination of the notion of being able to have done differently than one did, we see that it is an intellectually incoherent conjecture that does not correlate with our experience of reality.
