Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 23, 2024, 8:28 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain
#56
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain
(October 6, 2013 at 3:38 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(October 5, 2013 at 11:52 pm)Rational AKD Wrote: this is another complex argument developed by Plantinga. it uses modal logic so it may be difficult for some of you to grasp. since it seems many people misunderstand the purpose of my prior arguments, i'm going to be more clairvoyant with my arguments by establishing the purpose before I share the argument.
Purpose: many atheists claim the afterlife is impossible since the mind and the brain are the same. my aim is specifically against those claims, showing they are in fact not the same and establishing the independent function of the mind from the brain is possible.
Argument:
P1: it is possible (meaning conceivably possible) for the mind to act independently of the brain.
P2: it is impossible for the brain to act independently of the brain.
C1: there is an aspect of the mind that is different from the brain (P1, P2).
P3: if two things are the same (meaning same identity), they must have exactly the same aspects and properties. if there is a single aspect that is different, then the two are not the same.
C2: the mind and the brain are not the same (C1, P3).
Conclusion: the mind and the brain are not the same thing, therefore it is possible for the mind to function independent of the brain.

Objections:
1. this doesn't prove the mind can function independent of the brain-- correct. it only proves it's possible, which is all this argument aspires to establish.
2. but what happens to the brain can affect what happens to the mind, so that proves they are the same-- that may be true, but that only establishes a connection not an equivalence. the brain can affect the mind without being the same as the mind.
3. P1 is false therefore both conclusions are also false-- in that premise I was speaking of conceivable possibility. it would be easier to understand that with some basic knowledge of modal logic. what it means though, is we can conceive of such a thing happening without creating a logical incoherence. it can be shown that it is not incoherent by the numerous stories/movies of people who have their minds switched, or transferred, or astral project. we can conceive of such things without thinking it incoherent, therefore it is conceivably possible.

Sorry, nothing scientific about this at all. It is mental masturbation. "We" are merely what we call "I" being our brain in motion. Once the structure is no longer functioning, you are dead. You are your brain in motion, nothing more.

And actually what we are "conscious" of, ("consciousness" is also not precisely a correct/precise term), is, by the time we put it together, actually in the past. We perceive what we label as "consciousness", but what that really is, is an "assemblage" of distinct elements, and is what we WERE, a few nanoseconds ago, (and maybe further back than that). It actually takes time to assemble all the pieces of sensory input, reference them to memory, and sort out the input, to make sense of the input, and create a picture. We don't notice all that's going on, but many brain processes are happening all at once, most of which are beneath consciousness. An infant has to learn to put the pieces of sensory input together. Nothing of that is possible without functioning brain cells, and structures. I think one the Nobel prizes last year went to a couple guys who work on the epigenetics of memory. Fascinating stuff. Ira Flatou interviewed them on Science Friday, somewhat recently.

Hey I know.
The Modal Diet.
I'ma gonna write me a new diet book.
Make a frickin' fortune.
:p





Tiger
meow
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Rational AKD - October 5, 2013 at 11:52 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Lion IRC - October 7, 2013 at 10:45 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Tonus - October 8, 2013 at 7:35 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Chas - October 6, 2013 at 6:31 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Angrboda - October 6, 2013 at 12:46 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 2:59 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 7:39 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 11:09 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 12:02 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Tonus - October 6, 2013 at 9:07 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 6, 2013 at 12:47 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 6, 2013 at 3:38 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Bucky Ball - October 6, 2013 at 6:57 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Chas - October 7, 2013 at 6:16 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 7, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 7, 2013 at 10:33 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 8, 2013 at 12:50 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 8, 2013 at 3:04 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Chas - October 8, 2013 at 10:16 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Chas - October 8, 2013 at 11:18 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 8, 2013 at 9:36 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 8, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 8, 2013 at 9:08 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 8, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Chas - October 8, 2013 at 3:38 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 8, 2013 at 9:34 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 9, 2013 at 10:42 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Angrboda - October 9, 2013 at 12:22 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 9, 2013 at 12:51 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brian37 - October 9, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by genkaus - October 9, 2013 at 5:54 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 9, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Angrboda - October 10, 2013 at 12:42 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 10, 2013 at 7:39 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Angrboda - October 10, 2013 at 12:12 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 10, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Angrboda - October 10, 2013 at 3:08 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 10, 2013 at 1:10 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Ben Davis - October 10, 2013 at 6:15 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 10, 2013 at 7:11 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Ben Davis - October 10, 2013 at 7:42 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 10, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Ben Davis - October 15, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 15, 2013 at 9:36 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Ben Davis - October 15, 2013 at 10:40 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 15, 2013 at 8:31 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 23, 2013 at 11:35 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Dunno - October 9, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Angrboda - October 10, 2013 at 7:19 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 10, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 11, 2013 at 7:52 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 11, 2013 at 5:16 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 11, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 11, 2013 at 6:17 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 11, 2013 at 6:40 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 12, 2013 at 3:07 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 12, 2013 at 5:37 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 13, 2013 at 3:02 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 12, 2013 at 8:41 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 12, 2013 at 7:40 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Brakeman - October 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Tonus - October 12, 2013 at 10:51 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by bennyboy - October 13, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by Bucky Ball - October 15, 2013 at 11:05 am
RE: Modal Argument: The Mind is Not the Brain - by pocaracas - October 15, 2013 at 11:30 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The modal ontological argument for God Disagreeable 29 1480 August 10, 2024 at 8:57 pm
Last Post: CuriosityBob
  Jellyfish have no brain - can they feel pain? Duty 9 1375 September 24, 2022 at 2:25 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Understanding the rudiment has much to give helps free that mind for further work. highdimensionman 16 1716 May 24, 2022 at 6:31 am
Last Post: highdimensionman
  How to change a mind Aroura 0 359 July 30, 2018 at 8:13 am
Last Post: Aroura
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 15004 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Mind from the Inside bennyboy 46 7680 September 18, 2016 at 10:18 pm
Last Post: Arkilogue
  What God is to the Universe is what your mind is to your body fdesilva 172 25244 August 23, 2016 at 7:33 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Mind is the brain? Mystic 301 40720 April 19, 2016 at 6:09 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Consciousness is simply an illusion emergent of a Boltzmann brain configuration.... maestroanth 36 6664 April 10, 2016 at 8:40 am
Last Post: Little lunch
  Is personal identity really just mind? Pizza 47 7952 February 14, 2016 at 12:36 pm
Last Post: God of Mr. Hanky



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)