(January 25, 2010 at 8:52 am)fr0d0 Wrote: To withhold judgement is to be agnostic - and I've said I can't know. This rationalisation doesn't escape that condition... so the evidence is not concrete.
1) Claiming that you cannot know makes you an Agnostic
2) Withholding judgement about God makes you an Atheist
So, if you withhold belief in a god, and claim that you can't know presently whether or not he exists, then you are an Agnostic Atheist.
But you are neither frodo, you claim you don't know but you defeat your own claim by holding the positive belief in the Christian God. An agnostic Theist is one who believes that there is a God but exactly which one is not knowable. Being a Christian you clearly do not meet the criteria for this label.
Thus, your positive belief in the Christian God and in Jesus is neither an Agnostic nor a Logical position.
Quote:Otherwise of course I'm referring to empirical evidence. To insist on that to me is pure folly and a trip up your own anus.
Requesting evidence, be it empirical or logical, is an entirely reasonable request. If you cannot provide evidence for the Christian God that you believe in then your position is inherently illogical.
Quote:If witholding judgement makes me an atheist VOID, then Christianity by it's own definition is atheistic. I like the point
By what logic?
Christianity is the positive belief in one specific God and his Son. If you have a specific belief you, by definition, have made a judgement.
Once again, your lack of rationale is rather dumbfounding.
Quote:It depends on how you define 'believe'. If it's like you believe there's a nose on your face then I'd agree with you. But when it's belief as in acceptance of something you cannot know, then belief is weakened by knowledge and becomes 'knowledge' instead.
1) I don't define 'believe', it has a fairly comprehensive consensus on it's meaning in the English language already, that being:
Quote:–verb (used without object)
1. to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
2) Yes belief becomes knowledge when supported by conclusive evidence, what's the point you are trying to make?
Quote:Faith on it's own is a very good thing and the staple of religion. It isn't though the abandonment of reason, rather an integral part.
1) If faith on it's own is a good thing then by that logic believing whatever takes your fancy is a good thing, be it benign or otherwise.
2) I would love to see you demonstrate how faith is a part of reason. Bet you can't.
.