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Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
(October 19, 2013 at 5:15 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Sorry, you'll just have to imagine the QI klaxon. The purpose of a flower is for sexual propagation of the plant species, but for the plant itself the only purpose is the processing of light and carbon into sugars (this is only true of course for oxygenating plants containing chlorophyll).

True yes but then the more complex flowering structures can only evolve once the more primitive spore producing plants have established themselves. What you're looking at is some kind of global scale natural cycle here. I wouldn't pretend to know all the details of it just going on what can be observed and the outcome all of this allowed for. The building blocks of life is a process that is within the universe as a whole this being the purpose to which it was created for. You will find nothing here that contradicts known science, Darwinian natural selection is still at work as part of the process of course no creationism required. It's only the universe as a whole that had to be created for this process to come into effect.


Quote:Agriculture is a human-imposed purpose, nothing whatsoever to do with the plant. If anything, it could be argued that the purpose of humanity and pollenating insects is the survival of the vegetable races.

Can you build agriculture on bracken and amphibians? The planet as a whole has to be able to sustain civilized life and that is the way it developed. We can of course see how it developed thanks to the fossil record.


Quote:Doesn't matter, it has nothing to do with any perceived purpose of plants. Stop thinking so anthropically.

If the universe is created by a supreme intelligence/God then the anthropic principal does somewhat apply. The question is whether what we observe of the universe would fit such a created intentionally made natural order. I'm saying it does and pointing out what we can see right there. You're presupposing purposeless coincidence so I guess you won't be able to appreciate any of it. Surely this must seem like an incredible coincidence to you? Look at all the work that had to go into all this for us to be here at all, look at how precise everything had to be. This just washes over you? It's difficult to know how to respond to this really. Hopefully you can appreciate the validity of a purpose/God made universe in the context of modern scientific knowledge. If I can do that at least that's something. The mistake many Christians/theists make is they don't tackle the scientific side of things at all, it's important to explain how the universe is an intentional God made creation, without claiming the Earth to be 6000 years old. We know it's 4 billion years old and we know evolution or a transmutation of species occurred there is no denying that.



(October 19, 2013 at 4:32 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: I don't care, I never mentioned life.

You asked what the purpose of stars was and within the context of a universe created for life, as this universe undoubtedly was, they serve quite a significant purpose. They form part of a very elaborate system/process. As I'm sure you can appreciate if you know the science behind all this. We're even made from star material.


Quote:Both of these are completely incidental to a star's purpose, if such a term can be applied at all. A star converts hydrogen into helium and that is all that would concern it if it could be concerned.

All part of Gods intentional design. Heck for the stars to form at all the laws of physics had to be tuned to absolute perfection don't think there was a margin for error here.

Quote: Once it has to face the battle for continued survival over gravitational collapse, then and only then comes the question of heavier elements. However, precisely none of this happens for the benefit of any lifeforms that may happen to be around.

Lifeforms wouldn't be able to form without this process of stellar fusion and the ejection of these elements into the wider universe following supernova. These elements are the building blocks required for life. Like I already mention we are made from this star stuff.


Quote:Again I don't care. We were talking purpose, not human interpretation.

You're interpreting it all as purposeless or coincidental, unplanned. But that's because you don't believe in God. I don't know how it's not an interpretation you do it yourself.



Quote:Those are ants infected by a parasitic plant spore called Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which grows inside its body and controls its brain to make it climb a tree, jam its mandibles into the bark and wait for death, whereupon the parasite bursts out from its brain and generates more spores. All things bright and beautiful indeed, but again what is the purpose?

Yes but you may as well point out how there is no life on Venus or Mars (well there may possibly be on Mars or there was at some point) I didn't say every small detail was micromanaged to every last detail the natural order has some degree of freedom to develop in certain ways and forms. Sometimes it's not always something entirely pleasant as in the example of parasites but these things did evolve because there is niche for exploitative organisms it can't be avoided. There is also of course for humanity/civilized life. And here we are, as planned.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer. - by Sword of Christ - October 19, 2013 at 6:14 pm

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