(October 20, 2013 at 3:06 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Thats why I said: my consciousness. The molecules that make me up won't cease to exist, but my mind will.
You do know the atoms you're currently made from haven't always and won't always exist as part of your physical body? You know that atoms you're made from currently won't be the same atoms your body will be made from in 10 years time?
I'll let you into a secret, you exist as consciousness without consciousness you do not exist but as a consciousness being you do exist. This isn't or anything supernatural or something to take on faith this is 100% pure fact of reason. You're not going to exist as "non-sentient molecules" so forget all about that it's just nonsensical.
Quote:I don't want to go to hell. But if i don't do what god wants, I will end up there because of the system he created.
God wants to have a loving relationship with you. Same as like say your biological father would want that.
Quote: If i don't want to go there but i have no choice in the matter, that means I am being forced into something i don't want.
You don't have to love your father but it's better for you if you did. What do you have against love and relationships?
Quote:Just saying, 'we have free will' is not an answer. I'm asking, how a god that loves everyone and understands what it is like to suffer, can just sit around and watch as billions of people suffer and die unjustly.
He doesn't sit around doing nothing he is in constant relationship with us and shares in the suffering of life with us. He did this physically in the person of Christ so I don't know what else you want him to do. Remove human freedom of will to do evil or sin? To force people into obeying him? To deny us the opportunity of a physical life in his creation?
Quote:Saying that we have free will is not an answer.
So you would like to be a kind of robot controlled by God? Though I suppose you like the idea of being a robot controlled by chemical reactions.
Quote:False hope.
False certainty.
Quote:Lies.
Truth.
Quote:That is what you give them.
I'm not giving anyone anything. I can explain how you are mistaken though. I don't mean mistaken from my own point of view either but factually mistaken on a number of points. If you don't want to believe in God that's fine but at least understand it.
Quote: I would give them reality.
Your opinion of reality. You're entitled to your opinion of course but you don't get to brand it as reality when you yourself do not know.
Quote: The truth is always better.
The truth of the Lord is better.
Quote: Instead of reassurance i would give them aid, food, water, shelter.
That's the Holy Spirit motivating you there. I don't think you're really separated from God he still works through you he's right there in your heart.
Quote:This all comes down to you not caring what you believe as long as you can feel good about it.
You can't care about what you believe and feel good about what you know as the truth?
Quote:Its not enough then.
He can't remove human sin he only saves you from it's consequences. If he forced people to be sinless he would remove their freewill. We also currently have frail mortal physical bodies but that's just the fact of the situation as it is and there is nothing you can do about it. It's better to this as a gift and an opportunity to serve God rather than serving yourself. You serve God by serving others and caring for his creation.
Quote:Why not? An all powerful god can't make it so that we don't get genetic defects and mutations? And don't fucking mention angels again, i don't like listening to bullshit
Something like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, minus the opportunity to disobey him and come to the understanding of good and evil then. It's better to see life as an opportunity to do good or as a gift harsh though it can be.
Quote:Wow, that is a very big sweeping statement. You care to explain yourself? You got any evidence? Or are you pulling shit out your ass?
Evidence for what? We can only have scientific evidence for what we can physically study the evidence for God is through revelation and spiritual experience.
Quote:I understand better than any believer what the Christian god is. Read the fucking bible without those rose colored spectacles and you may get to know him properly.
What makes you think I haven't read " the fucking bible"? I read practically it every night as I practice Lectio Divina.
Quote:Why do you speak about faith like it is a virtue.
Why do you speak about faith as an evil?
Quote: I think we may have different definitions of faith but my one is: believing in something despite lack of evidence and/or evidence to the contrary. Faith is a cop out. Faith is gullibility
My definition of faith is a trust in something or someone you consider to be trustworthy. I'm sure you have plenty of faith/trust in your own life.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
