(October 24, 2013 at 7:38 am)Aractus Wrote: There's a number of you here that consistently deny that Jesus was a real historical person, which is utterly ridiculous and to that I would encourage you to listen to Bart Ehrman on this one:
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Firstly, we have excellent evidence that Jesus existed as a historical person, the only account of his death is by crucifixion, and importantly, we have very early written records.
Now I'm going to assume that most of you are going to at least agree that Jesus did exist, and that he claimed to be the son of God.
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
This isn't a "legend". We have an early record of an even earlier creed. We think that the letter was written around 55AD. This is too early to allow for legend, and bare in mind the message that is contained is that Christ died for our sins; which by all accounts is the purpose of the crucifixion. The creed itself goes right back to within a few months or years of the crucifixion itself. There was no contradictory belief taught before this, and of that you can be certain.
The problem is, contradictions. Luke and Mark leave no room for being seen by 500 people. All the gospels contradict each other wildly. None of it can be taken seriously. Paul seems to know little about Jesus and what little he says has little to say outside of general theological claims.
The gospels, and Paul predict the second coming to happen soon, which did not happen as prophesied. Big miracle working promises, none of which were true.
Paul's general theology, God as electing some, dooming others as per Romans is insane. Why pay attention to him?
Jesus makes a number of commands, most notably, sell all you have and give to the poor. Yet most self described Christians ignore the many verses that command that and don't follow Jesus.
If Christians don't take Jesus seriously enough to follow his commandments, why should religious skeptics take any of this seriously?
Luke 14
33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
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Cheerful Charlie
If I saw a man beating a tied up dog, I couldn't prove it was wrong, but I'd know it was wrong.
- Attributed to Mark Twain
If I saw a man beating a tied up dog, I couldn't prove it was wrong, but I'd know it was wrong.
- Attributed to Mark Twain