[quote='Lemonvariable72' pid='541231' dateline='1384189939']
So satan decieves people intentionally on god behalf, [/quote]
Yuup. Adam and Eve, Those in 2thess paul mentions at the end times etc..
[quote]with a end result of those people being sent to hell for rejecting his word because satan decieved them.[/quote]Yuuup.
[quote] Yet god is not evil?[/quote]Nuup.
Why? Because 'good and evil' are not standards that exist outside of God's will. What is good is 'good/righteous' because God said it is. and what is sin/evil is so because God said it was bad.
From the beginning with Adam and Eve, 'we/man' have been given the ablity to choose, but without someone to point out the choice we have we are not able to identify, any will outside of God's expressed will. That is why Satan was allowed into the Garden to tempt eve.
Satan repersents choice or the other half of biblically based 'free will.' If God repersents truth, then Satan must take the position of deception to provide the oppertunity for us to have a secondary option to choose from. The act of deception in of itself hold no intrinisically good or bad juju. It is how deception is used (in or against the will of God) that makes deception a sin or even an expression of evil.
Before you ask another question it is important you understand this concept (That our deeds hold no 'moral' [for the lack of a better term] value in of themselves.) It is what we do in relation to what God has told us to do that make an action sinful or evil.
Like the bible?
Here are a few
[quote=failed prohecies]
[hide]
Destruction of egypt
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee. And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it. Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.[5]
[quote]This passage is one of the most erroneous in the entire Bible. Egypt has never been a desolate waste, [/quote]Are you high?
http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4TSHB...d=0CBgQsAQ
egypt even in the time of Christ was a desolate waste land compare to what it was when the prophesy was made.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...CEwQrQMwEA
According to some scholars it was the most lush region in that part of the world.
[quote]there has never been a time when people have not walked through it, there has never been a period of forty years when Egypt was uninhabited, and it has never been surrounded by other desolate countries.[6][/quote]
Take another look at what egypt is...
http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4TSHB...d=0CBgQsAQ
compared to what some say was a region that paralelled the Amazonian rain forrest when that prophesy was given.
[quote]In Ezekiel 30:10-11 he further predicts that Nebuchadnezzar will destroy Egypt:[/quote] and he did...
What the problem is?
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...Carchemish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carchemish
http://www.jrmi.org/the-battle-of-carchemish/
Don't tell me you just assumed the website you were quoting was telling the truth?!?!
Always double check, half that crap is made up the other half is cherry picked and glued back together, none of it repersents the truth. It's just the filler ichy ears want to hear.
[quote]They shall draw their swords against Egypt,
And fill the land with the slain.[/quote]Again they did that very thing.
[quote]12 I will make the rivers dry,
And sell the land into the hand of the wicked;
I will make the land waste, and all that is in it,
By the hand of aliens.
I, the Lord, have spoken.”[/quote]and He did, so again what the problem is?
[quote]However, Nebuchadnezzar was defeated in his only attempt to invade Egypt.[7] [/quote]
you do have a citation to back up that little 'fact' outside of 'ihategodandiwillmakecrapupinordertodisprovehim.com don't you? Of course you don't.
[quote]
Nile will dry up
Yep, still there[/quote]
The orginal text does not mention the nile specifically. It say the rivers of eygpt. The Nile crosses into 11 countries not just egypt. All of egypts true rives (not flood plains) are gone.
[quote]Ezekiel 30:12 continues with a prediction that the Nile River will run dry.
I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken. (NIV)
There is no evidence that this has happened in recorded history. [/quote]
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/opinio....html?_r=0
Give it some time, we're not done yet.
[quote] 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord.[/quote]This says do not marry an unbeliever. It does not say run from them.
[quote]Acts 13:10 ESV
And said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?
[/quote]
You guys kill me, are you so desperate to make a point you would think I would not verify your passage?
4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. 5 And when they arrived in Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. They also had John as their assistant.
6 Now when they had gone through the island[a] to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”
Clearly Paul is speaking a specific indivisual/self proclaimed wizard..
[quote]If a person can pervert the ways of the lord how much the devil who is far more powerful then us?[/quote]
a lot more?
Matthew 5:22 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
(Now finish the passage and note the resolution contained with in the completed context of the message.)
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
[quote] Matthew 23:33 ESV
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? [/quote]So?
[quote] Revelation 20:13-15 ESV
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
[/quote]So?
[quote]Need more? Because I think the bible is clear here, no matter what apologetic crap you come up with.
[/quote]
Yes please.
For the bible is very clear if you wipe the crud from your eyes and approach it with an open heart.
So satan decieves people intentionally on god behalf, [/quote]
Yuup. Adam and Eve, Those in 2thess paul mentions at the end times etc..
[quote]with a end result of those people being sent to hell for rejecting his word because satan decieved them.[/quote]Yuuup.
[quote] Yet god is not evil?[/quote]Nuup.
Why? Because 'good and evil' are not standards that exist outside of God's will. What is good is 'good/righteous' because God said it is. and what is sin/evil is so because God said it was bad.
From the beginning with Adam and Eve, 'we/man' have been given the ablity to choose, but without someone to point out the choice we have we are not able to identify, any will outside of God's expressed will. That is why Satan was allowed into the Garden to tempt eve.
Satan repersents choice or the other half of biblically based 'free will.' If God repersents truth, then Satan must take the position of deception to provide the oppertunity for us to have a secondary option to choose from. The act of deception in of itself hold no intrinisically good or bad juju. It is how deception is used (in or against the will of God) that makes deception a sin or even an expression of evil.
Before you ask another question it is important you understand this concept (That our deeds hold no 'moral' [for the lack of a better term] value in of themselves.) It is what we do in relation to what God has told us to do that make an action sinful or evil.
Like the bible?
Here are a few
[quote=failed prohecies]
[hide]
Destruction of egypt
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee. And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it. Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.[5]
[quote]This passage is one of the most erroneous in the entire Bible. Egypt has never been a desolate waste, [/quote]Are you high?
http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4TSHB...d=0CBgQsAQ
egypt even in the time of Christ was a desolate waste land compare to what it was when the prophesy was made.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...CEwQrQMwEA
According to some scholars it was the most lush region in that part of the world.
[quote]there has never been a time when people have not walked through it, there has never been a period of forty years when Egypt was uninhabited, and it has never been surrounded by other desolate countries.[6][/quote]
Take another look at what egypt is...
http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4TSHB...d=0CBgQsAQ
compared to what some say was a region that paralelled the Amazonian rain forrest when that prophesy was given.
[quote]In Ezekiel 30:10-11 he further predicts that Nebuchadnezzar will destroy Egypt:[/quote] and he did...
What the problem is?
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...Carchemish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carchemish
http://www.jrmi.org/the-battle-of-carchemish/
Don't tell me you just assumed the website you were quoting was telling the truth?!?!
Always double check, half that crap is made up the other half is cherry picked and glued back together, none of it repersents the truth. It's just the filler ichy ears want to hear.
[quote]They shall draw their swords against Egypt,
And fill the land with the slain.[/quote]Again they did that very thing.
[quote]12 I will make the rivers dry,
And sell the land into the hand of the wicked;
I will make the land waste, and all that is in it,
By the hand of aliens.
I, the Lord, have spoken.”[/quote]and He did, so again what the problem is?
[quote]However, Nebuchadnezzar was defeated in his only attempt to invade Egypt.[7] [/quote]
you do have a citation to back up that little 'fact' outside of 'ihategodandiwillmakecrapupinordertodisprovehim.com don't you? Of course you don't.[quote]
Nile will dry up
Yep, still there[/quote]
The orginal text does not mention the nile specifically. It say the rivers of eygpt. The Nile crosses into 11 countries not just egypt. All of egypts true rives (not flood plains) are gone.
[quote]Ezekiel 30:12 continues with a prediction that the Nile River will run dry.
I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken. (NIV)
There is no evidence that this has happened in recorded history. [/quote]
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/opinio....html?_r=0
Give it some time, we're not done yet.
[quote] 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord.[/quote]This says do not marry an unbeliever. It does not say run from them.
[quote]Acts 13:10 ESV
And said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?
[/quote]
You guys kill me, are you so desperate to make a point you would think I would not verify your passage?4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. 5 And when they arrived in Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. They also had John as their assistant.
6 Now when they had gone through the island[a] to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”
Clearly Paul is speaking a specific indivisual/self proclaimed wizard..
[quote]If a person can pervert the ways of the lord how much the devil who is far more powerful then us?[/quote]
a lot more?
Matthew 5:22 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
(Now finish the passage and note the resolution contained with in the completed context of the message.)
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
[quote] Matthew 23:33 ESV
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? [/quote]So?
[quote] Revelation 20:13-15 ESV
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
[/quote]So?
[quote]Need more? Because I think the bible is clear here, no matter what apologetic crap you come up with.
[/quote]
Yes please.
For the bible is very clear if you wipe the crud from your eyes and approach it with an open heart.
