Illinois to become 15th state to recognize marriage equality

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

Yes, moral decay is to me today this whole "tolerance" bullcrap that goes on today. Tolerate every form of moral decay, while silencing anyone who objects to it with "bigot!".
You people are such hypocrites.

What? Moral decay is tolerance, but we have to tolerate moral decay? So your problem is that you have to tolerate tolerance?? Talk sense.

And well, if the said thing is a tradition itself, it does. Marriage itself is a tradition, and is bound by traditions.

I'm tired of explaining why tradition alone is an insufficient defence. If you continue to try to use tradition as an a priori justification in any of your points, I'll simply dismiss it.

It's not the same thing, because marriage does not just have a legal position, but also a social position.

Great comeback. The point I was replying to was specifically about legal rights.

Because they are not a fringe group. They do not identify as a seperate group within society. They're part of the majority that has the privilage to marry.

My mistake, I must have got confused by them being a group that you described as fringe examples

You know, lets do that. And slavery was abolished. Will you be the ones to abolish marriage? Or allow the slaves to own slaves?

Congratulations on completely missing the point. Yet Again.

That's an assertion, care to back it up? Whilst your at it, explain why homosexuals couples can't have family values. If they were raised in your utopian family unit, they should certainly know what family values are, right? Explain why they can't pass on those values. Actually, before you do that, why don't you explain those values are?

Well, it is as to say that a known traitor can become a nationalist leader.It is the same as to suggest homosexuals that live out this lifestyle in contrast to their upbringing, can become people who perpetrate the same upbringing. IT is ridiculous.

Well done on explaining those values. As for backing up the assertion, that was pathetic. Treason is a matter of perspective. A traitor to one person is a hero to another.

You you did distort my words as though I had said anything about it.

No. I directly quoted you in my response. There was no distortion.

Same sex couples can only reproduce by the use of surrogacy. A male lacks a womb, and a female lacks the capacity to produce sperm. Any form of "reproduction" will still be based on the male and female reproductive systems. So its actually doing nothing but to provide them with what they were born already, either a penis, or a womb.They simply don't want to use those the way they were meant to be used.

I see you paid close attention to those links. Well done.

Relations without marriage are worthless. Their responsibilities have no ground to stand on, and there is no one to tell you otherwise.
I can cheat on my girlfriend, and can walk away from it without gathering much scorn from society. I can impregnate a girl outside of marriage, and can do practically the same, for I do not really have the responsibility to look after an illegitimate child. I can do most of these things outside of marriage.

You can do all those things in a marriage too. "Traditionally", there has been little to no stigma for a man that does so.

We'll just start a few wars, and it'll just go back to equilibrium.

I think I'll recycle one of my earlier responses to you:

Not a bad idea. Then we could get ourselves some sexy uniforms, reclaim the Sudetenland and......and........oh, wait. This is starting to sound a bit familiar.

Why despise Marx? He created your form of thought.

Really? I didn't know Karl Marx hated socialism. Are you sure you're not talking shite again?