(November 20, 2013 at 7:52 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:So these claims exist, we coin a word for them "miracles". This words grants special exception for what would otherwise be delusional? Is this right?(November 20, 2013 at 6:58 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: Are you saying that it's not delusional to think that a virgin woman can give birth? ... To be dead, and lying in a tomb, and then magically get up. Is it not a delusion to believe this?... Is there not indisputable evidence that tells us that these things are not physically possible?Only if you think it is delusion to believe that miracles are possible. I do not believe the universe is causally closed and known physical laws may not be unequivocally binding. The only difference between a miracle and a physical law is that physical laws happen regularly and miracles are one-shot deals.
(Personally, I do not like applying legal concepts to scientific ones. The term ‘physical law’ implies governance by an entity actively enforcing the law. In reality, what we call laws are really, from a scientific perspective empirically strong propensities.)
Are you saying that God temporarily suspends these physical laws that accurately describe the universe as we know it, and that coincidentally, the instances during which these laws are suspended, is where the claims of miracles occur, and they always occur in such a way that we cannot know it until we're hearing it second hand?
You don't seem to just be saying that it happens, it's verifiable and we just can't explain it, but rather, it's said to have happened, it's not witnessed or verifiable, but it must be the exception to where these otherwise accurate laws that would otherwise be perfectly descriptive simply fail? And these claims are not delusions so long as you believe them, and if you do, you can peacefully dub them as "miracles", the aforementioned term coined for these special claims?
Is this what you're saying?