Strong Atheism starts from faith

[theVOID]

If you want to argue that is is more reasonable to assume there is no god rather than to admit it is not known then i will gladly have that debate with you.

Ok, but don't you think we need more room?

More room for?

That debate.

You keen for a formal debate on the subject in? I'll PM you about it later if keen. We'll have to agree on the motion.

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I personally find agnosticism a hypocritical position since in my view to be agnostic you have to assume that the concept of god was not a creation of man but that somehow he/it revealed himself to mankind one way or another. And at the same time you assume he doesn't exist unless you have proof that he does. If that is not hypocritical then I don't know what is.

Dude, Agnosticism does not say that God was not a man made concept, i'm almost absolutely certain that it is just that, the key world being 'almost'. I cannot disprove the existence of God nor am i claiming to know that he does not exist - that makes me Agnostic by definition.

There is nothing at all hypocritical about such a position.

My position is simple, based on the evidence of history itself, this includes the history of world lores and myths; that god is a concept of man, in other words we created gods in our own image.

I agree with you, however I would be intellectually dishonest if i claimed that this was a certainty. We have no way of knowing that all these contradictory religious lores are entirely man man made as opposed to one being true and the rest wrong, or all of them being a misrepresentation of a real phenomenon, i consider the latter two extremely unlikely, but cannot be honest in claiming certainty.

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You're talking about a fantasy god that doesn't feature in any religion VOID. That's nice and naive, but this is the rational world where we consider rational notions. Yours is no where near a rational notion.

I'm sorry, where in your religious texts does it state that there is and cannot ever be a way to verify the existence of God?

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

It's all over the bible. Show me one place where it says God is verifiable

1) What is meant by God's face?

2) "Thou shalt see my back parts" implies some trace of God being available does it not? What exactly do you believe that passage is about?

Also, i didn't claim that the Bible claimed your God to be verifiable, I was simply curious to see if it contained anything to the contrary which i guess it kind of does, but it's all so damn ambiguous.

I still however hold the position that if God (or anything supernatural) manifests in reality in any way to make changes then we should be able to observe the effects of this interaction, such as the prayer example, it would be easy to spot a statistical abnormality with prayer, if the results are repeatable and independently verifiable then you can deductively reason that there is a phenomenon in place related to prayer.

In the real world, with real understanding, we know that God cannot be verified.

I'm not interested in you asserting that God cannot be verified, i want to know why you hold that position. Where is your reasoning?

It's not me that's asserting it... it's the basic precept of every religion. You apparently don't get this.

Look at the reasoning.. why need faith; how, given omnimax attributes could this entity also be verifiable? If you can make that work your whacko beyond my estimation.

I KNOW it's a precept of religion, that doesn't make it any less of an assertion. Would you like to explain why God cannot be verified?

Also, i never said you would have to verify every single attribute given to God, but if you could logically necessitate his existence you would have evidence that God exists in at least some form, which would be a damn epoch more convincing than the proposition currently is.

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Additionally you propose a god we don't know yet. This isn't anything any theist here is talking about either. Yes there are infinite possibilities of anything yet unknown to us existing. The Christian God isn't one of these.

Assuming there is evidence for the existence of God, do you still not need faith in his actions? Do you not need faith to believe that this Omni-benevolent does not prevent natural disasters because they are a necessary evil? Do you not need faith to believe he has a good reason for giving children cancer so they spend their short lives suffering in and out of hospitals?

No I'm not entering your psychotic world. This is your child like reasoning yes. For me it's just purile.

Psychotic world? WE ALREADY LIVE IN THIS WORLD!

Would you not, assuming God is proven to exist, still require faith in the righteousness and benevolence of his actions in the face of tragedy that you know he could prevent?

It's a more than reasonable question so i'm sure you won't have a problem giving me a proper response.