RE: The universe appears "old", but it is still less than 10,000 years old
December 5, 2013 at 6:20 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2013 at 6:24 pm by orogenicman.)
(December 5, 2013 at 4:44 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote:(December 5, 2013 at 12:49 pm)Chuck Wrote: You seem to think a simple conclusion drawn from an experiment can be cast into serious doubt by the expedient of contriving a much more convoluted alternative explanation, without any need to accompany the alternative with even a vague proposal of how the alternative can be tested and the simpler explanation excluded. In this you are more like a Wordorf, trying to find wiggle room for a hoax, or at least a figment of fancy, than a person with a genuine inclination towards finding explanations most likely to be true in light of available explanation.I'm not trying to find "wiggle room" at all. I want ASC to be proven wrong and it should be perfectly clear from my posts that I'm trying to find a flaw with it, but every experiment I've found so far and every example given on this forum has suffered from confirmation bias. I'm not going to overlook a flaw just because doing so would give a preferred result - doing so would only undermine our position.
Even if you don't believe my intentions and really do think I'm trying to find "wiggle room", you should note the two main questions I am asking when looking at each experiment are:
1) Is this actually a test of the one way speed of light?
2) Is there an issue with simultaneity that hasn't been taken into consideration?
If people could ask those questions themselves before they post a experiment that "proves" isotropy, it would save time and effort for all involved .
(December 5, 2013 at 4:06 pm)orogenicman Wrote: The measurements are being recorded in two positions separated by 1,000 feet. The signal from each detector is running along identical wires with identical lengths with known properties. The issue is synchroneity of clocks, NOT synchroneity of detectors. That isn't an issue here because there is only one clock measuring arrival times at each detector. You don't actually want synchroneity of detectors and wouldn't expect to have it because you are trying to measure the arrival times of the laser light at each detector. The measurement is a one-way measurement from the source (the laser) to the two detectors set at different locations along the light path. You know the speed at which the signal will reach the oscilloscope from each detector (from prior testing) and used that information to calibrate your result.
But if there is a time dilation then the detectors will be affected by it. It's not just clocks that are subject to time dilation. You can't prove one way isotropy unless you eliminate this possibility.
According to special relativity, if two objects are moving (or if one object is moving relative to the other), they are in different frames. If they are not moving, they are in the same frame whether they are 1mm apart or 1 light year apart. The detectors are not moving; the clock is not moving. They are all in the same frame, so there can be no time dilation between them. The only things moving are the laser pulse and the electrons inside the wiring circuit, both of which have known and testable properties.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero