Strong Atheism starts from faith

[fr0d0]

Whilst my claim cannot be proven I don't agree that he isn't present in this reality. Likewise you cannot prove that he doesn't. Of course the effects are real... Christians acting on their belief will have a discern-able impact. But why does god have to fit 'real'? Temporal entities don't exactly fit into the category, which highlights the fallacial nature of your premise.

It's not a fallacy. The burden of proof is on YOU to provide evidence of existence for making such a claim. I can either accept or reject your claim based on the evidence provided. You say there can be no evidence, therefore I reject the claim. It's really rudimentary stuff, man.

Read it again, I made no positive claim. I've told you several time now that looking for validatable proof is fallacial. If you claim that you require evidence of that which by definition cannot have validatable evidence I'd like to see your reasoning for such apparent illogic.

There are no modified rules of logic for God. You say he is present in this reality, but he cannot be measured, tested, or observed. I call bullshit on your claim until you can provide evidence to the contrary.

You lose.

He can be measured, tested and observed, but not transferably. If you could 'know' for sure that God existed, then there would be no reason for religion or faith. Are you seriously suggesting anyone should accept such a brainless suggestion?

You're repeating yourself. Let me reciprocate: Religion is abused for power... that isn't people acting in a Christ like manner; that's people being people and abusing power. Not only religion is marred by this; although religion is a prime target in that it's so easy to manipulate people using it. I'm not shying away from anything here... gross atrocities have been committed in it's name.

It's good that we're on the same page. I just wish that you understood the implications of supporting such a group.

I understand fully the implications. I also understand what does and does not apply when following my faith. You apparently like to apply serious illogic and discriminate unfairly.

Your sources are wrong.

Only in fairyland are Mormonism and JW denominations of Christianity. You seriously need to check your facts.

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses establish themselves firmly as believers of Jesus Christ. They call themselves a denomination of Christianity, although there has been opposition from Orthodox Christianity. Is that better?

No. JW's don't follow Christ. They don't believe he is God. It doesn't get any clearer. Christians accept the Nicene creed. that's pretty much the rule of thumb.. no matter what you decide it is.

You're drawing illogical conclusions. God is everywhere and in everything in this universe.. that's standard theology.

It's also a scientific question, in which the answer has no logical or factual basis. From this, I can conclude that no conclusion can be made either way, refuting your positive claim. This is not an illogical way of thinking.

Asserting that "God is everywhere and in everything" without having anything to back it up is purely and simply MAKING SHIT UP TO FIT A BELIEF. It's not hard to admit.

It is never a scientific question! You can test, feel, experience the reality of everything around you. That God is in it is a theological consideration. Yes, a conclusion can't be validated either way... as I said.

Your logic is fallacial.

We cannot prove this transfer-ably and that is consistent with Gods' nature.The Bible isn't a metaphor - you keep repeating that and getting it denied... but it seems stuck in your head.

Consistent with God's nature - a nature described in your Holy book? You said none of the bible should be taken literally. How else can you digest information in a book, if not figuratively and metaphorically? In what sense should the bible be taken?

How do take fables or Hitch hikers Guide?

God is transcendent ...his existence is irrelevant to this reality.

How is it irrelevant if you believe he performs miracles and has the power to intervene? Seriously, sometimes your arguments just take a dive right off a cliff.

You're getting confused and conflating ideas out of their context. 'Exist' is not relevant to God's relationship with our physical universe. He is transcendent.

Read this and take it in this time:

Your insistence on empirical reasoning is in fact a logical fallacy. if you ask for scientific evidence for God according to the principles of the scientific method, you are commiting the fallacy of question-begging, for God is not within the scope of investigation of the scientific method, according to it's own principles.

Exactly. By my standards, which is reality, we can assess that God, at least your interpretation of God, is not and CANNOT be real, since he resides outside of reality, and his existence would be irrelevant in any case. I thoroughly reject your claim using logic. I haven't begged the question, nor have I used any unreasonable standard of measuring what is REAL.

I'm not an idiot. I know you can't measure supernatural forces in the natural world. For that reason alone, I will conclude that we cannot make the claim that there are any supernatural forces in reality, much less forces that can intervene in the lived of people because there IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT.

I say good day to you, sir.

You lose.

You say you will not consider it more like. Your logic is fallacious and you can't fight your way out of that particular paper bag. I lose yet you fail to make one logical point why that should be so. It appears logic isn't your strong point.

Nice talking to you.