Monist vs. Dualist Experiment?

[bennyboy]

You statement amounts to saying that circular reasoning would render the evidence invalid - which, being a logical fallacy, is automatically included in my statement.

You can't start by saying I'm wrong and then proceed to agree with me.

WITHOUT TAKING AS GIVEN its correctness.

You are taking as given that certain behaviors necessarily imply qualia. It's not logical to take this position, as behaviors are mechanical by definition.

Me: I know I have qualia. I know my certain actions are the result of my qualia. I see no other rational explanation for those actions other than qualia. I see others acting similarly. Which is why I know they have qualia as well.

That's a philosophical position, not a scientific or logical one. Until you can show anyone both qualia and its resultant behavior, you've got nothing. You say you have qualia-- fine, prove it.

Except, option 2 (and by extension 3) are not possibilities to begin with - no more than FSM pushing us down with his noodley appendages is a possibility. When we talk about the behavior of specific nature, that nature happens to require subjective awareness. There is no evidence to suggest that it can be reproduced through physical means without qualia.

Stop. Forget about proving a behavior can't be reproduced without qualia. You haven't yet proven that there's a case where qualia exists, with or without any particular behavior to let you "know" about it. You're still running in circles:

-Only qualia can be responsible for particular mechanics (i.e. behaviors)
-I know qualia exist because I see those particular mechanics

A circle is a circle is a circle.

Practicing science requires you to accept a particular philosophical outlook based on evidence - so no bringing philosophy into it is impossible.

You've done nothing else. Your "evidence" shows that brains cause bodily motions, not that those brains are subjectively experiencing qualia. Don't believe me? Take me up on my offer-- we'll both make accounts on a science thread, and you can go explain how your knowledge of your own qualia stands as evidence that anything which behaves in certain ways must have qualia.

The gauntlet has been thrown.