RE: The universe appears "old", but it is still less than 10,000 years old
December 14, 2013 at 5:12 am
(December 13, 2013 at 7:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:(December 12, 2013 at 10:47 pm)orogenicman Wrote: I think you know who.
Seems rather childish to me.
It is what it is.
orogenicman Wrote:You have been arguing for a young universe (or Earth, whatever) based on your interpretation that the speed of light (one-way, whatever) is not a constant.
warped one Wrote:No, I argue for a young Earth based on what scripture tells us. I am merely pointing out that the fact that we can see stars cannot be used to argue against that timeline.
It is not the fact that we can see stars that is used against your timeline. It is the fact that we can determine the distance to those stars based on the standard candle and other techniques, and the fact that those distances tell us a lot about the age of the universe that actually blows your 3,000 year old Bedouin timeline out of contention. Moreover, it is certainly not the only evidence that does this, as you well know. Denying what every real scientist on the planet (and even many clergy as well) recognizes merely for the sake of keeping your own damned delusions alive is, frankly, rather stupid.
orogenicman Wrote:Here you are admitting that the velocity of light (be it two-way, or whatever - what we use in equations determining the standard candle) is a constant in a vacuum. This is an important admission since you cannot make this admission and then come to the conclusion that the universe is young. Hence my statement below:
warped one Wrote:Not the velocity the speed, the velocity changes in the two-way speed of light experiments. I am not sure what you are getting at. Standard candles are used to determine distance not age.
The velocity of light in a vacuum is a constant, warped one. This is not an ambiguous statement. It is a statement of fact. Standard candles are used to determine the distance to astronomical objects such as stars and galaxies. They are measured in parsecs and also in LIGHT YEARS. The distance, based on these measurements, from one end to the other of our own galaxy is 100,000 light years, which means it takes light 100,000 years to reach from one end to the other. This measurement alone refutes your Bedouin timeline by an order of magnitude. And that is just the diameter of our galaxy, which is one of over 100 billion galaxies that exist in the universe. The KNOWN age of the universe, based on these measurements is 13.7 billion years. This is also not an ambiguous finding.
orogenicman Wrote:So you are saying that you admit that the universe cannot be young. Is this a breakthrough? Or what? Do you want to rephrase your earlier bullshite statements, or what?
warped one Wrote:Again, you seem to be conflating distance with age. Nothing you have mentioned would be unexpected in an young created Universe.
No sir, I am not. The distance that light travels in a year is used as a ruler to determine not only the size of the universe, but its age. You would have to be very poorly educated (or willfully ignorant) not to be able to solve for time from the units of measure used in these equations (such as m/s, or light year). As for your last statement, above, I have yet to see you demonstrate how you get a 10,000 year old universe out of evidence for a 13.7 billion year old universe. I know why you haven't, but I want to hear it from you.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero