Theists, are you immune to being decieved?

[Violet]

Oh really, perhaps I got a different interpretation from Leviathan. Did you not get the sense that he was laying out framework for a materialist view?

Yes. Of course, he did a really shitty job of it.

I did, and that's why I thought it was perfectly relevant to a conversation about whether or not materialism is more compatible with our experience than dualism.

'Materialism' is arrived at after a few deviations based on one's answers to the basis questions... it requires the answer 'yes' to logic's truth, for instance.

'Dualism' also requires the answer 'yes' to logic's truth. Edit+2: But they deviate as early as the third question along the line of logic->perception=nonomniscient->Laws=Universal/nonuniversal. The universe must either be natural, and the supernatural nonexistent, or the universe must experience its laws being in flux, the supernatural being that which does not change with the laws (the laws which MUST BE, having answered 'yes' to logic's truth).

It was also my impression that Descartes supported that view, but again, you probably understood that better than me as well.

I wouldn't say I understood him better. All I would say, is that solipsism, true in some respects, does not preclude the reality of the existence of all things, regardless of the perception of those things.

But then, I can only do that because I answered 'yes' to the questions prior to it

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Wait a minute... Am I being punked???? Ashton!!!!

Only a little I keep things held well-back, unless I think the person I'm speaking to doesn't deserve that check

Added some very important edits. Sorry I was terse the first time, I'm helping my man cook some food ^_^

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I could explain better how dualism works, but I don't want to cut across you if you already understand portions and just need the missing pieces. The key is 'multiple planes of existence that each have entirely separate rules, and the rules of one set may completely and utterly contradict the rules of another set'. (which is the antithesis of materialism's 'all the world on one arrow')