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From atheism to Christianity? How so?
#74
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so?
(December 27, 2013 at 4:42 am)agapelove Wrote: I can understand your position; why should you pray to Jesus and not the flying spaghetti monster? I think it's an interesting question because I believe there are compelling reasons to consider praying to Jesus above and beyond any other religious claim.

That's a part of my question, but the rest of it was, why pray at all, given that prayer has only a specifically religious purpose and I'd have no reason to do it before I believe in the entity I'm praying to? See, if I were to pray right now and get no answer, the standard religious response is either that I wasn't doing it sincerely- which would be absolutely correct, because how can I sincerely talk to a being I don't think exists?- or that god's response isn't necessarily the one I expect, in which case, how could I be sure it was a response from god at all?

Quote:So, why pray to Jesus? Well, one evidence is that what Jesus said about Himself is reflected in the world today. We can see that there has never been anyone more famous and influential on the world than Jesus. He has influenced this planet more than any other person by a wide margin. If you could only pick one name as to who has been the prime mover of the last 2000 years, it would be Jesus Christ. That fact alone makes His words worth considering. Our entire historical perspective turns over a manger in Bethlehem. If Jesus is who He said He is, we should expect to see that kind of influence over world history. So, I think that in itself bears testing the waters by saying a short prayer.

I'm going to be really very polite and not swear like I usually would, but this is actually dead wrong; from a historical perspective we can't even confirm that Jesus existed, let alone said any of the things he said, but even ignoring that, much of what Jesus was purported to have said was said by others that predate him.

But there's another important thing you're missing, which is that the majority of the world is not Christian, and therefore their historical perspectives don't factor him into it at all. Even accepting your premise, the influence of Christ isn't as widespread as you'd like us to believe.

Quote:To answer the question of why pray to Jesus in the first place, the answer is that this is the only method which is guaranteed any results. It is the only method Jesus recommended we undertake to reach Him. So, if you are looking for evidence that Jesus is God, this is the best way to investigate it. There is really no other method that is worth considering because it is the only method which could possibly work.

Here's a study: performed by a religious organization, this study shows that prayer has no more efficacy than chance, and in fact makes people worse off when they know they're being prayed for.

Quote:I can understand if anyone disagrees with what I've said..I am sure you could poke holes in it if you tried. But as far as risk/reward goes, it doesn't get any better than that. There is no risk and infinite reward. If it isn't true nothing will happen. But if it is true He will let you know it.

Um, really? You're going to end on Pascal's Wager? Okay, lemme get out my debunking kit...

So, first of all, there isn't no risk: just in terms of material consequences, you've wasted time in church, money on tithing, mental energy thinking about something that doesn't exist, and possibly more, depending on the stripe of christian you are. In terms of the other risks, you're also risking infinite punishment if one of the other religions turns out to be the right one and you've been praying to the wrong god. Just saying.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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Messages In This Thread
From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 7:05 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 26, 2013 at 7:12 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 7:24 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by NonXNonExX - December 26, 2013 at 8:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Jacob(smooth) - December 26, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 2, 2014 at 9:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 12:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 3, 2014 at 7:12 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 10:03 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 1:47 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 2:18 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 11:37 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by houseofcantor - December 26, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 26, 2013 at 11:58 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Simon Moon - December 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 3:33 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 26, 2013 at 10:47 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 27, 2013 at 10:58 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2013 at 4:09 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mothonis - December 26, 2013 at 7:42 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Dragonetti - December 26, 2013 at 8:18 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by StoryBook - December 26, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 26, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Polaris - December 26, 2013 at 8:33 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by AstroNat - December 26, 2013 at 11:54 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by c172 - December 26, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by downbeatplumb - December 26, 2013 at 12:39 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by AstroNat - December 26, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 26, 2013 at 1:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - December 26, 2013 at 3:11 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by MysticKnight - January 6, 2016 at 11:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by dyresand - January 6, 2016 at 11:49 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 26, 2013 at 2:14 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Drich - December 26, 2013 at 2:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 3:05 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Drich - December 31, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - December 26, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by houseofcantor - December 26, 2013 at 4:22 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 4:19 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 4:50 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 26, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 12:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 27, 2013 at 2:55 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 4:42 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 27, 2013 at 6:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Simon Moon - December 27, 2013 at 2:48 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 27, 2013 at 1:54 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 27, 2013 at 3:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 28, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 26, 2013 at 4:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Simon Moon - December 26, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 5:07 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 27, 2013 at 7:14 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 26, 2013 at 5:01 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 27, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 27, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 5:16 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 6:10 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 26, 2013 at 6:17 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 26, 2013 at 6:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - December 26, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - December 26, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 26, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Severan - December 26, 2013 at 10:03 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 26, 2013 at 11:56 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Dragonetti - December 26, 2013 at 11:59 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by popeyespappy - December 27, 2013 at 12:52 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 12:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Bad Wolf - December 27, 2013 at 1:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 28, 2013 at 12:50 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 28, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 27, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 4:35 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 27, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - December 27, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 27, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 27, 2013 at 5:10 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Mister Agenda - December 27, 2013 at 5:15 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 27, 2013 at 5:31 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 27, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 28, 2013 at 8:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 28, 2013 at 10:11 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 29, 2013 at 8:49 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Ksa - December 29, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 29, 2013 at 5:00 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 30, 2013 at 3:27 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 28, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Godlesspanther - December 29, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 29, 2013 at 2:55 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - December 29, 2013 at 5:11 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Lemonvariable72 - December 30, 2013 at 12:31 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Jacob(smooth) - December 30, 2013 at 4:31 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 30, 2013 at 6:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - December 30, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - December 29, 2013 at 6:09 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - December 30, 2013 at 2:40 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - December 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Strongbad - December 30, 2013 at 6:57 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - December 30, 2013 at 8:50 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - December 30, 2013 at 9:07 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - December 31, 2013 at 5:46 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - December 31, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 1, 2014 at 4:21 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 1, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 1, 2014 at 10:55 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 2, 2014 at 12:41 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 2, 2014 at 1:55 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 3, 2014 at 2:30 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 3:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 3, 2014 at 3:25 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 3, 2014 at 4:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by agapelove - January 3, 2014 at 3:52 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - January 2, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 3, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 3, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 4, 2014 at 6:58 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 2:25 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - December 31, 2013 at 7:20 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Chas - December 31, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by pocaracas - January 1, 2014 at 5:59 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - January 2, 2014 at 2:00 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Minimalist - January 3, 2014 at 2:33 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Fruity - January 3, 2014 at 4:24 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Polaris - January 3, 2014 at 9:45 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - January 4, 2014 at 12:09 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - January 4, 2014 at 12:27 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - January 4, 2014 at 1:26 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by LastPoet - January 4, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Bad Wolf - January 4, 2014 at 2:37 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Esquilax - January 5, 2014 at 10:45 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Angrboda - January 4, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Grasshopper - January 12, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by rexbeccarox - January 12, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 12, 2015 at 8:35 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Losty - January 13, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Grasshopper - January 12, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by rexbeccarox - January 12, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Tonus - January 12, 2015 at 6:34 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Cyberman - January 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by downbeatplumb - January 13, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 12, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Cyberman - January 12, 2015 at 8:50 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by Whateverist - January 12, 2015 at 9:22 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by robvalue - January 13, 2015 at 3:04 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 13, 2015 at 2:29 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by psychoslice - January 13, 2015 at 3:13 am
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by robvalue - January 13, 2015 at 2:44 pm
RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so? - by fr0d0 - January 13, 2015 at 2:53 pm

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