(December 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm)Chas Wrote:(December 27, 2013 at 3:57 pm)agapelove Wrote: ...
I did consider many different possibilities, such as confirmation bias, or that I had something wrong with my brain, or even the idea that I was completely insane, but none of those were in any consistent with the reality I experienced. Insanity, as I have observed, is messy business but my life was becoming more well ordered and not disordered. I was gaining in character and virtue and not losing it. In the end, I don't mind being a fool for Christ. I understand everyone here thinks I am crazy, and that's okay; I love you anyway.
"...but none of those were in any consistent with the reality what I experienced."
Saying it was a reality you experienced is claiming too much. All you can claim is an internal experience. There is no way to objectively verify it.
You had thoughts and emotions, or possibly a delusion. You cannot dismiss that out of hand.
As Michael Shermer has said, "before you say that something is out of this world, make sure that it is not in it." (something to that effect.)
I also see a few other things going on in Agapelove's post. He is no doubt part of a group situation here. Most likely some kind of church. His story is one of many like it among the members. They are all very similar, in that, they involve a kind of 'revelation.' The group encourages the members to believe that they have experienced something other-worldly because that is what the belief system is based on. This is, no matter how much Agape may protest, confirmation bias.
The group demands a supernatural interpretation of the members' personal experience. I would encourage Agape to go a couple of moths without going to church or participating in their activities and then look back on his experience -- thus looking at it without the heavy confirmation bias.
Then I look at the claim that his life is more orderly and less haphazard since he had his woo-woo experience and joined a cult (order of events?) Yes, for a person who is involved in a structured and authoritarian environment -- they will place limits on behaviors that would not be pleasing to the leadership of the group. Regularly scheduled meetings do create structure. Having an external system of control enables some people to live a more orderly lifestyle, however, studies demonstrate (particularly studies on cognitive behavioral science) that a person can gain a very orderly and predictable lifestyle through methods of self-control. No god or group-think needed.
Then we see the saved-sinner routine. All the negative aspects of his life before conversion are exaggerated and the positive aspects minimized. Vice versa after conversion.
If Agape would do as I suggested, and dump the cult for just two months -- he would be able to see his experience for what it really is and see how the group has infested his thinking -- cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, and flat-out denial.
As I brought up earlier -- I do believe that some people are more prone to magical thinking than others. Some people, I suspect, just have some inner need to go talking to the sky, and pretending to get answers, when they know damn good and well that they do not. There are some people who do naturally function better under an authoritarian system than they do setting their own goals.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste -- don't pollute it with bullshit.