(March 10, 2010 at 5:36 pm)Saerules Wrote: I agree... but how could we consider anything about nothing except as a concept? Why can nothing not exist as something, especially when it by definition must be a thing?
Because you've confusing 'it' 'itself' and it as a concept again. It itself can't exist by definition. The concept of it is different. The concept of God exists but that is completely different to God itself existing. There almost certainly is no God in my mind, but the concept of God surely exists, as does the easter bunny. The concept of "nothing" (what we mean by "nothing") exists certainly, the concept of anything we can conceive can exist as a concept. But "Nothing" itself by definition can't exist, the concept of it is different. God almost certainly doesn't exist - "Nothing" can't exist by definition - because it is the opposite of existence. The concept of both can exist.
"The concept of nothing exists" and "Nothing exists" are two different propositions. Of course the concept of "nothing" exists, for that is simply the existence of what we mean when we use the concept of "nothing". "Nothing exists" however, simply means "Not one thing exists" which is the opposite of existence - "Nothing" itself cannot exist by definition. That is different to it's concept, hopefully you won't confuse the two again
Be careful not to confuse concepts with the actual thing. I heard that there was a book called something like "The evolution of God", and it gives lots of evidence and support for the concept of God, as if this somehow gives evidence for God. But that is ridiculous of course, the two are different things. The concept of the Easter Bunny exists, the concept of the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. I believe in the concepts of both of them - them themselves however I think almost certainly do not exist. Those are different propositions to the mere statement of the concept of them existing.
Quote:By the way, I'm only trying to create non-metaphysical counterpoints here... I hold to the understanding that nothing does not exist.
And cannot. By definition. We'd have to change the definition for it to exist, because it cannot exist any more by definition than "A" can be "not A" by definition.
Existing is not something that "nothing" can do. Nothing can't do or be anything because it is nothing at all. Hence, it cannot exist - it is the opposite of existence.
Ok, hopefully you're clear of my position on this matter now lol.
EvF
