Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 22, 2024, 7:11 pm

Poll: Where do you stand?
This poll is closed.
Atheist
72.73%
16 72.73%
Agnostic
18.18%
4 18.18%
Believer
9.09%
2 9.09%
Total 22 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
My Fellow Atheist
#48
RE: My Fellow Atheist
(March 12, 2010 at 4:09 am)Arcanus Wrote:
(March 12, 2010 at 3:05 am)tackattack Wrote: Then what would you define as faith, Arcanus?

Being persuaded and fully committed in trust, involving a confident belief in the truth, value, and trustworthiness of God. When it comes to Christianity, 'faith' is defined by three separate but vitally connected aspects (especially from Luther and Melancthon onwards): notitia (informational content), assensus (intellectual assent), and fiducia (committed trust). So faith is the sum of having the information, being persuaded of its truthfulness, and trusting in it. To illustrate the three aspects: "Christ died for ours sins" (notitia); "I am persuaded that Christ died for our sins" (notitia + assensus); "I deeply commit in trust to Christ who I am persuaded died for our sins" (notitia + assensus + fiducia). Only the latter constitutes faith, on the Christian view.

Consequently, notitia and fiducia without assensus is blind and therefore not faith. This shipwrecks the egregious canard that faith is merely a blind leap. Faith goes beyond reason—i.e., into the arena of trust—but never against reason. From the Enlightenment onwards, faith has been subject to constant attempts at redefining it into the realm of the irrational or irrelevant (e.g., Kant's noumenal category); but all such attempts are built on irresponsible straw man caricatures that bear no resemblance to faith as held under the Christian view: notitia, assensus, and fiducia.

(NOTE: "Christ died for our sins" is an example, not the sum, of notitia or informational content.)


Very well put, and it's a breath of fresh air to have someone illustrate their definitions so clearly.

I do have a few qualms with this however:

By your admission, faith would be defined more as trust than blind belief. This would pretty much equate the faith required for a belief in God with the faith that a particular weather forecast is correct. Both require information, assent, and commitment to the subject material in one way or another.

However, the fact that a belief, spouted by many to be the product of an objective, absolute, and very well defined God has to have objective evidence to back up that claim. Without it, any subjective faith would be irrelevant and hold importance solely to the believer. I fully make the claim that faith by itself does not constitute irrationality, but faith in a God that is not objectively verifiable traverses into the realm of delusion and at the very best, wishful thinkin on the part of the believer.

Given all three of your criteria, faith in God would be administered as the product of a particularly persuasive argument, and not of objectivity and necessary falsifiability. Just because an argument is persuasive enough to convince someone does not make the actual concept true or false, nor will it persuade people with a higher standard of evidence. To the outsider without evidence, it's easy to perceive that the believer practices in blind faith, even if they are absolutely convinced of their claims.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 3, 2010 at 6:25 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Tiberius - March 3, 2010 at 7:04 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 3, 2010 at 7:15 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 3, 2010 at 7:35 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Tiberius - March 3, 2010 at 7:51 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 3, 2010 at 7:41 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 3, 2010 at 9:00 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 3, 2010 at 9:16 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 3, 2010 at 9:22 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by padraic - March 4, 2010 at 4:40 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by padraic - March 3, 2010 at 9:14 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 3, 2010 at 9:25 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Autumnlicious - March 3, 2010 at 9:53 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 3, 2010 at 9:54 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 3, 2010 at 10:17 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 4, 2010 at 8:05 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Darwinian - March 4, 2010 at 7:54 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 7, 2010 at 9:13 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by padraic - March 7, 2010 at 10:40 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 8, 2010 at 2:58 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Dotard - March 4, 2010 at 9:46 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 4, 2010 at 10:13 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 4, 2010 at 4:56 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 4, 2010 at 6:16 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 4, 2010 at 2:42 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 4, 2010 at 6:55 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by padraic - March 4, 2010 at 7:27 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 4, 2010 at 11:23 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 5, 2010 at 4:11 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 5, 2010 at 2:35 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by fr0d0 - March 8, 2010 at 4:07 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Edwardo Piet - March 8, 2010 at 6:42 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 8, 2010 at 5:44 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Edwardo Piet - March 10, 2010 at 2:26 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 9, 2010 at 2:42 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 9, 2010 at 8:13 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Tiberius - March 9, 2010 at 5:09 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 9, 2010 at 5:17 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by TimeDivider - March 9, 2010 at 8:27 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 10, 2010 at 12:55 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 10, 2010 at 1:30 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Autumnlicious - March 10, 2010 at 1:36 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by chatpilot - March 10, 2010 at 2:40 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 12, 2010 at 3:02 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 12, 2010 at 3:05 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 12, 2010 at 4:09 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 12, 2010 at 1:13 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 13, 2010 at 1:01 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 14, 2010 at 2:12 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tackattack - March 12, 2010 at 7:32 am
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 14, 2010 at 6:36 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 14, 2010 at 7:00 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 14, 2010 at 7:40 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 14, 2010 at 8:25 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 14, 2010 at 8:36 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 14, 2010 at 10:25 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by tavarish - March 14, 2010 at 10:48 pm
RE: My Fellow Atheist - by Ryft - March 16, 2010 at 6:29 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  What is your stance on magic fellow atheists ? tahaadi 42 6083 October 13, 2018 at 9:51 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  I'd like to ask my fellow atheists if they would be happy to learn there was a god. Whateverist 88 18536 September 4, 2017 at 1:27 am
Last Post: Astonished
  Question For Fellow Atheists... Autolite 218 29612 January 28, 2017 at 9:50 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Easily The Stupidest Thing I've Ever Been Told By A Fellow Atheist BrianSoddingBoru4 6 3748 February 11, 2014 at 11:18 am
Last Post: Whateverist
Video My fellow atheists Eliyahu 2 1191 December 3, 2013 at 6:30 am
Last Post: Kayenneh
  For my fellow Austfailians. Ubermensch 5 2235 March 20, 2011 at 5:01 am
Last Post: Ubermensch



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)