Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 27, 2025, 11:03 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Who gets to decide when someone is lying?
#24
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying?


The problem with laying out the discovery of a falshood as a lie is that you're constructing a hypothesis about what someone did. You, in the general case, will never have sufficient evidence to prove your hypothesis correct, and quite frequently, such hypotheses are very self-serving, as self-serving as the supposed lies they're meant to expose. You don't know that the person who created the Piltdown fossil meant to pass it off as real, nor that those who passed it off as real had any knowledge of its creation. You've created "a story" out of whole cloth, and presumed that the truth of the lie depends upon the plausibility of the story, and its consistency with known facts. It doesn't. It depends on your "story" being what actually happened, and you're no less biased in the creation of your "story" than any other actor is. The only person with actual knowledge of which story is actually the case, in your scenario, is excluded from testifying as to what the case is. Instead, you're substituting people who are not in a position to actually know, and judging on how good their hypothesis seems. (And as I point out to biblical apologists, who frequently come up with just-so stories that are consistent but not necessarily true, consistency is a very low bar on the ladder toward truth. Consistency as your highest criterion leads to what is known as verificationism, the epistemology of only checking to see what confirms your hypothesis, not what might disconfirm it. That revolution came from Karl Popper and his views on falsification. Ask yourself this: what facts would show that Piltdown was not the result of intentional deceit, and have you looked for those facts which would acquit the actors of intentional deceit in Piltdown? I'm guessing you haven't looked for such facts and have concentrated solely on confirming your hypothesis. According to modern philosophy of science, that's a flawed approach. [I've actually read in-depth accounts of the Piltdown hoax and the principal actors likely involved, and from that reading, it seemed clear that we don't know what happened in the case of Piltdown. It seems very shaky to posit that somebody was guilty of intentional deceit if you don't even have the first clue what actually happened.])

[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Angrboda - January 29, 2014 at 2:37 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by No_God - January 29, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Godschild - February 3, 2014 at 7:53 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by LostLocke - February 3, 2014 at 9:41 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Godschild - February 4, 2014 at 8:56 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Esquilax - February 4, 2014 at 9:10 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Cato - February 4, 2014 at 10:05 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by LastPoet - February 4, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Godschild - February 6, 2014 at 12:00 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Angrboda - February 6, 2014 at 12:19 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Esquilax - February 6, 2014 at 1:19 am
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Esquilax - February 6, 2014 at 1:30 pm
RE: Who gets to decide when someone is lying? - by Angrboda - February 6, 2014 at 9:24 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Is Lying Ever Justifiable? Rhondazvous 53 7574 October 8, 2015 at 8:38 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Is calling someone judgemental judgemental? Koolay 29 13684 July 21, 2013 at 3:45 am
Last Post: genkaus
  Would someone recieving a bionic transplant still be the same person? Zone 7 3453 February 21, 2013 at 11:57 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Changing Someone's Belief FallentoReason 18 10868 August 4, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Last Post: FallentoReason
  Can you forgive someone yet seek justice against them at the same time? Pel 20 9099 January 18, 2012 at 12:49 am
Last Post: KichigaiNeko



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)