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How can a Christian reject part of the Bible and still call themselves a Christian?
#87
How can a Christian reject part of the Bible and still call themselves a Christian?
(February 12, 2014 at 4:42 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: I'm trying to explain what the real interpretation of Christian salvation through Christ is meant to be. But you're trying to shoehorn in the atheists stereotypical and misinformed interpretation, the kind of thing Christopher Hitchens or whoever would go on about.
I am pointing out that crippling our freedom with "sin" is a bad deal. You keep pretending that I am saying that freedom is bad. I am pointing out that crippling freedom with "sin" and with a plan that punishes the full use of freedom is bad. You keep pretending that I am saying that freedom is bad.
Quote:Well yes it is Gods plan. It's a very plan overall seeing as we get the opportunity to exist as living beings and to develop our relationship with God with our own freedom of will and serve others and some good.
We could have done this without being made sinful by nature, if god wasn't so bad at his job and too proud to recognize it.
Quote:Without the downside you wouldn't have the upside. The upside makes the downside worth it.
This can only be true if god is incompetent. If he cannot envision a scenario where freedom to choose does not require us to be forced to commit sin, he is inept. The fact that "his creation" can see the alternatives that he could not is strong evidence that he is made up.
Quote:What God created here is a community of being capable of living in love with God and each other but only if we choose to do so there's no force or compulsion involved you see.
You said that without sin, god's plan would be irrelevant, and that we cannot help but to sin. That is not freedom. The choice is forced, by design.
Quote:In the Christian context the universe was created for the purpose of developing a loving community of beings.
It sounds as if it was created by a petty little creature who wants to bully his minions and have them love him for it.
Quote:It's better that he did make it this way given the opportunity of what it allows us to experience and do.
That is a truly horrifying "plan," and I think that the only reason you accept it as "good" is because you have to, otherwise you are forced to undermine what you believe in. Your god is painfully limited. He cannot seem to create a world where people can live freely without constantly offending his sensibilities, a flaw that he blames on us and then offers to remove for a price (or make even worse if we refuse to pay!). The concept is just bizarre, and if you didn't have to try to make sense of the ignorant ramblings of an ancient tribe of simple people, you might just realize that.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
How can a Christian reject part of the Bible and still call themselves a Christian? - by Tonus - February 13, 2014 at 6:59 am
RE: How can a Christian reject - by Minimalist - February 14, 2014 at 8:46 pm
RE: - by Fake Messiah - October 25, 2016 at 3:23 pm
RE: How can a Christian reject... - by FallentoReason - October 26, 2016 at 12:51 am

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