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An atheists guide to reality
#72
RE: An atheists guide to reality
(March 7, 2014 at 1:09 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Rosenberg argues, and I agree, that since physical things do not have meaning, then any philosophy of mind that makes mental properties identical to the brain and its physical states, undermines the notion very of meaning. It sets up an infinite regress. Marks, like words & pictures, dramatic life events, and scientific “evidence”, are signs that take their significance from other signs that take their significance from others signs, and so on. In physical monist philosophies, the brain is just another sign among signs. In physical monist theories, which nearly all the AF atheist accept, the knowing subject is an illusion, a uniquely compelling one, but an illusion nonetheless. Anyone with an open mind can see the incoherence of this notion: who exactly is having the illusion!

Clearly, intentionality is a part of reality, whether fundamental to it or emanating into it. Either way, I do not know what else to call this source of intentionality other than God.

So, Esq, no matter how strenuously you assert the opposite, you cannot escape the fact that atheism entails nihilism.

I didn't understand the part highlighted in italics. That notwithstanding I want to attempt to approach this issue, that of endemic nihilism from an entirely different POV.

I'll start with an analogy of a video game, or rather with 2 types of video game.

The first has a defined target. Beat the computerised enemy, get through all the levels and eventually win.

The second is more interesting in some ways - in that there is a real question as to why you would want to play it.

In this form of game you face the enemy (whatever it is) in waves. The waves never stop. They just get harder and harder until you lose. Why play?

To me the reason that such games are popular has to be something to do with the fact that they mirror life. However good you are at life eventually it ends in death. Your life may have had meaning for its duration. It may continue to have meaning in the memories of others or perhaps in the genes you passed on but eventually they too will evaporate into the mists of time.

Ultimately, then, life is pointless, but:

For the duration of the game there is much to be enjoyed, to gain satisfaction from aside from the result. The way you played, your utilization of resources along with you achievements along the way all factor into what you get out of it.

Turning our attention to life itself there is a difference, even at the simplest level between animate and inanimate objects - even if the fundamental building blocks are the same. Life is self aware, at least enough to "want" to continue. This want operates on several levels.

The first is individual, then family, then wider circles through to species and perhaps even beyond. It seems that such an approach is a fundamental pre-requisite of life, if not a defining feature of it.

From this simple definition springs everything. All life-forms, behaviours, instincts and indeed morality.

By the time humanity had evolved it had developed a complex set of parameters that were ideally suited to keeping the species going. Amongst these are probably a fairly simple set of intuitive guidelines or instinctive appreciation of such things as empathy, reciprocation and possibly even an innate sense of fairness. It appears that those are innate in other species too.

Part and parcel of all of the above is meaning or value. We instinctively value life and we overlay on this our meaning which is expressed within the culture into which we are born.

Ultimately, as far as I can see, this fundament provides the floor to your infinite regress of significance. Meaning is allocated by us because we are alive.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
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Messages In This Thread
An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Minimalist - March 2, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bad Wolf - March 2, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 2, 2014 at 12:58 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 2, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 2, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 2, 2014 at 1:57 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Alex K - March 2, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Faith No More - March 2, 2014 at 2:24 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Faith No More - March 2, 2014 at 2:41 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 2, 2014 at 2:29 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Alex K - March 2, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Neo-Scholastic - March 6, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 7, 2014 at 5:27 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 8, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Minimalist - March 2, 2014 at 1:18 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MitchBenn - March 6, 2014 at 5:38 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bittersmart - March 7, 2014 at 9:51 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 2, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 2, 2014 at 1:30 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 1:42 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by truthBtold - March 6, 2014 at 8:07 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Alex K - March 2, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 2, 2014 at 1:53 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by The Valkyrie - March 2, 2014 at 2:00 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 2, 2014 at 2:09 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 2:26 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 2, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 2, 2014 at 2:56 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 2, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 2, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by downbeatplumb - March 2, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 2, 2014 at 3:27 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by eyemixer - March 2, 2014 at 6:41 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mothonis - March 6, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Alex K - March 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 2, 2014 at 2:37 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 2, 2014 at 2:41 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by StatCrux - March 2, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 2, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Faith No More - March 2, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Alex K - March 2, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bad Wolf - March 2, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 2, 2014 at 3:00 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 2, 2014 at 6:33 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Ryantology - March 2, 2014 at 4:14 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 2, 2014 at 5:28 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bob Kelso - March 10, 2014 at 5:48 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 2, 2014 at 6:21 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by LastPoet - March 2, 2014 at 6:45 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by pocaracas - March 2, 2014 at 8:20 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by *Deidre* - March 6, 2014 at 9:02 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mister Agenda - March 6, 2014 at 11:39 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 7, 2014 at 11:00 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Neo-Scholastic - March 7, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mothonis - March 7, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Silver - March 7, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Neo-Scholastic - March 7, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Silver - March 7, 2014 at 1:44 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mothonis - March 7, 2014 at 1:48 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 7, 2014 at 5:42 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Esquilax - March 8, 2014 at 7:09 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Ryantology - March 8, 2014 at 11:18 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Tonus - March 7, 2014 at 2:34 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 8, 2014 at 12:37 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 8, 2014 at 12:55 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 8, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Tonus - March 8, 2014 at 1:03 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by *Deidre* - March 8, 2014 at 11:07 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Neo-Scholastic - March 8, 2014 at 11:34 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 8, 2014 at 12:07 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 9, 2014 at 3:53 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bittersmart - March 8, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 8, 2014 at 12:34 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bittersmart - March 8, 2014 at 1:01 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by downbeatplumb - March 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Bittersmart - March 8, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by *Deidre* - March 8, 2014 at 3:37 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 3:49 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Whateverist - March 8, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 4:00 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by *Deidre* - March 8, 2014 at 4:01 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 4:08 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by *Deidre* - March 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 4:15 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by *Deidre* - March 8, 2014 at 4:22 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 8, 2014 at 9:49 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 10:05 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 10:36 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 8, 2014 at 11:23 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by max-greece - March 9, 2014 at 2:53 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 9, 2014 at 11:33 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 9, 2014 at 11:57 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Tonus - March 9, 2014 at 4:38 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2014 at 4:38 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Brakeman - March 8, 2014 at 11:15 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Cinjin - March 8, 2014 at 11:32 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 9, 2014 at 12:36 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 9, 2014 at 12:44 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 9, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 9, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - March 9, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 9, 2014 at 3:48 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by heathendegenerate - March 9, 2014 at 4:47 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by fr0d0 - March 9, 2014 at 4:57 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by heathendegenerate - March 9, 2014 at 5:12 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by fr0d0 - March 9, 2014 at 5:24 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Zen Badger - March 10, 2014 at 5:06 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 10, 2014 at 5:12 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 9, 2014 at 6:12 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 10, 2014 at 1:16 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 10, 2014 at 2:16 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Jacob(smooth) - March 10, 2014 at 5:02 am
An atheists guide to reality - by Rampant.A.I. - March 9, 2014 at 7:01 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by fr0d0 - March 10, 2014 at 4:50 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Neo-Scholastic - March 13, 2014 at 10:32 am
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Angrboda - March 13, 2014 at 7:08 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Neo-Scholastic - March 13, 2014 at 8:07 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - April 23, 2018 at 4:32 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Edwardo Piet - April 23, 2018 at 4:33 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - April 23, 2018 at 4:34 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Edwardo Piet - April 23, 2018 at 4:49 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by The Grand Nudger - April 23, 2018 at 4:45 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - April 23, 2018 at 4:45 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by MysticKnight - April 23, 2018 at 4:51 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by The Valkyrie - April 23, 2018 at 5:37 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by KevinM1 - April 23, 2018 at 5:41 pm
RE: An atheists guide to reality - by Edwardo Piet - April 23, 2018 at 5:50 pm

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