(March 7, 2014 at 11:16 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I think you need to stop speaking to xtians and start talking to some jews.
http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTM...17-03.html
Quote:Countering the Question: Why Don't Jews Believe in Jesus as the Messiah?
Answer:
The question above is a typical one asked by Christian Missionaries. The answer is easy, if one understands Jewish beliefs.
Jews do not believe that the Messiah is a part of G-d, or Divine in any way, more than any other person. Jews look only to G-d for our salvation, and when the time comes for G-d to bring the anointed king, then it shall happen. Jews do not concern ourselves with the messiah’s identity, for the messiah is a person and the messiah's coming does not change our relationship with G-d. Jews do not accept the notion that Scripture “foretells” that G-d would robe Himself in flesh; in fact, to Jews, this idea is idolatry, and we stand against it.
Quote:The reason why Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah is straightforward: he did not meet the requirements in the job requisition! G-d outlined these requirements in the Bible. The key aspect of proof is in the state of the world.According to the Bible, amongst the most mission of the messiah includes returning the world to return to G-d and G-d's teachings; restoring the royal dynasty to the descendants of David; overseeing the rebuilding of Jerusalem, including the Temple; gathering the Jewish people from all over the world and bringing them home to the Land of Israel; reestablishing the Sanhedrin; restoring the sacrificial system, the Sabbatical year and Jubilee. This simply has not happened. Judaism has no notion of the messiah not doing these things on the first visit, let along needing a second visit to do these things. Whenever these things are described in the Tanach, the description says that the messiah will come and do these things—once.
Oh, you want specifics? According to Torah, the Messiah will:
Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple
Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel
Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore."
Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel - uniting the entire human race as one: "G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One"
Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Oh, and there is none of this 'second coming' shit, either. The messiah gets one bite at the apple.
I understand all of that.
However none of those arguments actually prove that the jews didn't just make it all up later, just like the Christians, or that the folks on Masada or others were not really really crazy like batshit crazy. Furthermore there is no rational basis for you to impose rationality or Constancy on cross theology comparisons. If I accept your argument here I am basically saying that your evidence from the Jewish theology must be accepted as true to disprove the existence of a historical christ. That is about as plausible as saying that David Koresh was not the second coming of christ because some other guy really was.
None of that is evidence of the non-existence of the historical christ. It is further evidence that all theologies are really crazy, but not convincing regarding a historical jesus. I just don't accept any religious arguments concerning truth, apparently you do because you have imposed conditions on the true historical jesus. I presume none of that, I just think that him and his followers were most likely crazy, if they ever existed.
